Good morning. Good morning. This morning I want to talk about one of the most famous stories in Zen. It's the second case in the Mu Man Khan Gateless Barrier Koan collection. And it's about a fox. and an old Zen master named Baizhang, who lived 749 to 814. Hakujo is how his name is said in Japanese. And as with most of these stories that date back to figures from that period, we don't know if this actually happened historically, but it's been studied intently, the story for 1,200 years or 1,000 years. Anyway, this is an important story for us. So Zen teaching has a lot to do with these koans or teaching stories.

[01:03]

And the point of these stories is not to, you know, they're not riddles to solve, although it seems like that in some of the ways they're practiced. But anyway, in our tradition, We study these stories as ways of informing our practice body. So this story is very important for us, and I'll start with the version that the Soto Zen founder in Japan in the 13th century, Dogen, the version that he cites, and I'll be talking about some of his commentary. But he talks about this story a great deal, and this story has Again, one of the most important stories in Soto's sense. And it goes like this. On the occasions of Baizhang meeting with the assembly, there was always an old man who followed the assembly to hear the Dharma. So some versions say he sat in the back.

[02:08]

One day, oh, when the assembly departed, so did the old man. Unexpectedly, one day, he didn't leave. Baizhang then asked, who is the person standing before me? The old man said, I am not a human being. But at the time of Kshapa Buddha, in a previous age, I resided on this mountain. So this is a previous, maybe a previous Big Bang or whatever, previous Kalpa, previous period. And at that time, this old man was Baizhang, the teacher in this temple on this mountain. He goes on, once a student asked me whether or not a person of great practice falls into cause and effect. I answered him that such a person does not fall into cause and effect. After that, for 500 lives, I descended into a wild fox body.

[03:11]

Now, I ask you, Master, to give a turning phrase on my behalf. so that I may be released from this wild fox body." Then he asked Baizhang, does a person of great practice or great cultivation fall into cause and effect or not? Baizhang said, such a person is not blind to cause and effect, or it can be translated as does not ignore cause and effect. With these words, the old man was greatly enlightened, made prostrations and said, I have been released from the wild fox body. So that's the story as Dogen cites it. There's a longer version, which I'll get to, in the Gateless Barrier Collection. But there are many things to say about this story. Again, the key is, does a person of great cultivation fall into cause and effect, into karma? or not.

[04:13]

And this former teacher on this mountain said, no, he's not subject to cause and effect. And the story goes, because of that, he spent 500 lives as a fox. When he asked the current Baizhang, does a person of great cultivation fall into cause and effect, Baizhang said, he does not ignore. or is not blind to cause and effect. So this is a story, again, many aspects of this story, but at the core, it's about karma and cause and effect and what our relationship to that is. So in some versions of the story, you may have heard it as, does an enlightened person fall into cause and effect? Literally, that's not what it says in the old story. It says a person of extensive practice and cultivation. as if, you know, there's no such thing as an enlightened person as some thing, but a person of great cultivation who's practiced for a long time, many lifetimes even.

[05:26]

Do they fall into cause and effect? So, awakening is supposed to be the going into the unconditioned realm, beyond causes and conditions, beyond cause and effect. And yet, even in the early sutras, teachings of the Buddha, often there are stories about the great Arhat disciples of the Buddha. who have completely purified all of their karmic afflictions, and still things, sometimes terrible things happen to them, and the Buddha explains that, oh, in some past life, maybe a hundred or a hundred thousand lifetimes ago, you did such and such, and that's why this is happening to you now. So even arhats are subject to cause and effect. Again, there are many aspects of this story and I want to talk about it, particularly what is the nature of our relationship to cause and effect. But one aspect is just the idea of the fox.

[06:28]

So as a cultural aspect, it's important to know that whereas in, say, Native American culture, foxes or coyotes are kind of mischievous and tricksters and troublemakers, they also have a kind of humorous or sometimes even not so malevolent side. In Asia, or at least in East Asia, the fox is a rather malevolent figure. Foxes cause great harm, as mythological figures, not in terms of real foxes. Anyway, so the fox was not a good life to be born into for this former master of Baizhang. Again, with great cultivation, does someone of great cultivation or great practice, extensive practice, fall into cause and effect?

[07:33]

And Baizhang said, they are not blind. They do not ignore cause and effect. How do we pay attention to the realities of causes and conditions Context, we talk about this in terms of many, many lifetimes. We could take that literally or metaphorically, either way, just in terms of all of the causes and conditions that each of us has experienced, that has contributed to each of us being here in the way we are here this morning. we do not ignore cause and effect. Cause and effect arises again and again. So, in some of the commentaries, in Hongshuo's commentary in the Book of Serenity, for example, he kind of equates not being subject to cause and effect with not ignoring cause and effect.

[08:42]

There's a way in which most of the Chinese commentaries say, to not ignore it is to not be subject to it. And this is a kind of controversial issue. How do we deal with the realities of causes and conditions in our world and in our lives? How do we recognize them? How do we practice with them? How do we, you know, the Theravada teachings emphasize to see wholesome aspects of our awareness and to try and support those, encourage that, and to see unwholesome aspects of our awareness and try and let go of those or not encourage them. So there is a part of our practice that is involved in working with our karma, working with our habitual tendencies, our dispositions, our ways of thinking, our patterns of addiction, and so forth.

[09:44]

So, there is this. This is an important part of our practice. And yet, there's a part of our practice which we can't exactly name or identify, that does have to do with the unconditioned, going beyond causes and conditions. And yet, again, does the Person of great cultivation fallen to cause and effect. Well, Baishang frees this fox by saying, such a person is not blind to cause and effect, does not ignore cause and effect. We can't ignore the realities of our causes and conditions in this world and in this life. So, I'll read a few comments. Dogen talks about this, story quite a lot, but I'll just read a few brief comments. In the version I read, which is in his collection of Koans, Volume 9 of his extensive record, he has two verse comments, usually he only has one.

[10:55]

The first one, saying one of great practice does not fall into this cause and effect, the cave of demons appears. Yet he is not merely an old fox. within the demon's cave when with one turning phrase, suddenly mountains and rivers transform and verify his future path. This is interesting. He's sort of saying, ah, he's celebrating the aspect of the fox being saved. And there's more to the story that I'll tell from the gateless barrier, but he's celebrating even with one turning phrase within the demon's cave, suddenly mountains and rivers transform and verify his future path. So this turning phrase in this story is not ignoring cause and effect, not blind to cause and effect. And then the second verse, and this was fairly early in Duggan's teaching career that he made these comments. Pity that in the age of Kshapa, an honored Buddha sank as a wild fox for 500 lives.

[12:03]

His ears upset. Hear a lion's roar. A mature tongue cuts through the reckless crying." So in these stories, in these comments, Dogen is emphasizing this possibility of being free from well, for this former teacher of his fox body. And he's celebrating the possibility of the teaching freeing us from our own maybe karmic tendencies to ignore cause and effect, to think that we can get away with things, to think that we are free of our habits and patterns and conditioning. Again, as I mentioned, in Chinese commentaries, in Hengzhe's and other commentaries, it seems to be that most of the teachers take that tack on the story, that in some ways, by not ignoring cause and effect, then we're no longer subject to cause and effect.

[13:17]

This is the one, so for those of you who know Dogen's work, this is the one aspect of Dogen's teaching that really seems to have changed in his life. In Dogen's studies, there are many people who have thought of his early teachings as very different from his later monastic teachings. Really, there's an underlying consistency. But in this story, Dogen seems to change his emphasis to the importance of not ignoring cause and effect and to emphasis on the precepts that we really need to focus on this reality of cause and effect and what happened to this fox. Stephen Hine, who's been here before, wrote a whole book on this story and its impact for Dogen's teaching called Shifting Shape, Shaping Text, I think, talking about the way in which Dogen changes his commentary on the story.

[14:25]

And Stephen will be back here again in May, probably, talking. So we can look forward to that. I'm going to read one more commentary by Dogen, again, on the same story. And this is from actually fairly early, this is also fairly early in his teaching, before he left Kyoto to found Eiheiji. He related the story of Baizhang and the fox, and then Dogen said, mountains, rivers, and the great earth are the cave of the wild fox. Receive and discard one piece of skin, flesh, and bones. Cause and effect are very clear and not a personal matter. Partridges sing incessantly in late spring, and a hundred flowers vanish. So in this commentary, which I like, he emphasizes various things, maybe the naturalness of cause and effect, but also he emphasizes how we are connected to the world.

[15:43]

So I talked about this in other contexts last Sunday, the ways in which we are not separate from the causes and conditions of our planet and of the world. Mountains, rivers, and the great earth, all of the phenomenal world are the cave of the wild fox. So when we ignore cause and effect, maybe get caught in a cave. And yet, we are part of mountains, rivers, and the great earth. And he says, cost and effect are very clear and not a personal matter. So this is something I've been working on for a while, and others as well. This idea of karma that is part of Asian history, which emphasizes personal karma. And in some ways, this story does too. And Duncan's pulling it out of there, he's saying, the cave of the wild fox is the mountain drivers and the great earth.

[16:48]

Can we ignore the causes and conditions of our planet? So I talked last Sunday about the, a little bit about the conference that happened the last two weeks in Copenhagen, trying to deal with the causes and conditions affecting our whole earth. And in some ways, the conference was really a failure in terms of what scientists say need to happen. There was not a binding agreement. There was nothing close to what the scientists say need to happen to try and change the damage to our climate. And yet, there was a hopeful aspect too. There were 100,000 people. in the streets demonstrating for attention to this and to returning the balance of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere to 350 parts per million. This is an important number for our planet now, 350. It's now 390.

[17:49]

Anyway, the point is that karma is not just personal. And throughout Asian history, often people have, people who are in unfortunate circumstances, well, it's popularly considered, oh, well, you did something in a past life, it's your fault. And this has been a tremendous rationalization for oppression and it's been misused. As Dogen is saying clearly here, however, cause and effect are very clear and not a personal matter. part of what we see and part of what the wild fox needs to see is that we are totally interconnected with all beings, with everything that happens in the world. the causes and conditions that cause damage to ourselves and to our situation in the world, it's connected to us.

[18:51]

It is a personal matter, but it's also a matter that involves systemic and collective karma. So we are connected. The idea of Sangha in Buddhism, in the Bodhisattva teachings, is that we are doing this practice together. And in some ways, everybody who's ever been sitting in this room is here this morning. In some ways, everybody that you've ever known is part of that which is sitting on your cushion or chair right now. We are connected. This is also part of cause and effect. So, okay, this story, this strange story, what do we do about this strange story? And Dogen talks about this as important in terms of precepts, that we do need to look at cause and effect. And our bodhisattva precepts are guidelines for how to

[19:56]

be in accord with a way of living that does not cause harm. So things like not killing, which also means to support life, not stealing, not taking what's not given, we say, not lying, which also means speaking the truth, benefiting all beings, not being subject to intoxication, not misusing sexuality. These are part of our Bodhisattva precepts that are ways of practicing with not just our personal cause and effect, but with how our piece of the cause and effect of the whole world, the karma of the whole world, which affects us as well, Again, this story has so many aspects, and I want to have some time for discussion, but let me now go to the longer version of the story. So, in the version of the story that I read, the master Baizhang says,

[21:04]

Greatly cultivated people are not blind to cause and effect. They do not ignore cause and effect. And the old man was greatly enlightened at these words. And then the story in the Gateless Barrier goes on from there. Bowing, the old man says, I have shed the wild fox body, and it remains on the other side of the mountain. I am taking the liberty of telling you and asking you to perform a monk's funeral for me. So in his book on this, Stephen Hine has a map of the Baijiang Mountain and where the fox was found and where the monastery was at that time. The master had, the story goes, had one of the group hit the sounding board and now sent to the community that they would send off a dead monk after mealtime. So there would be a funeral for a monk, which is a very elaborate fantasy ceremony. And the monks in the community were, perplexed and debated about this, wondering how that could be so, because they saw that everyone was fine and there had been no one in the infirmary.

[22:11]

After the meal, the master led the group. So I guess this is the midday meal. This was still back when the monks didn't eat afternoon. So after the meal, the master led the group to a cave on the other side of the mountain. And with his staff, he fished out a dead fox body. Then he cremated it and had it at Long's funeral. Now this is extraordinarily radical. One of the things about the figure Bai Zhang in Zen history is that he's also considered to have been the first the initiator of the Zen monastic regulations. Again, historians say that that's probably not the case, but there is a short set of monastic regulations that is attributed to Baizhang. He's the representative of precepts and monastic order and ethics in the Zen tradition, and yet he did this...

[23:15]

Scandalous thing, he gave a monk's funeral, a very fancy ceremony, for a fox, a dead fox. Again, foxes are considered very malevolent in Asian lore. The story continues. After the cremation, and we get this barrier, that evening, the master went up in the hall and recounted the foregoing events. One of his students was named Huangbo, Obaku in Japanese, and he was the teacher of the great master, Rinji or Rinzai, later on. Wangbo asked, an ancient who gave a mistaken answer fell into the state of a wild fox for 500 lifetimes. What becomes of one who never makes a mistake, never says the wrong thing? And the master said, come here and I'll tell you. And Wampo then approached and he gave the master a slap. The master clapped and said, I thought foreigners' beards were red.

[24:23]

Here is even a red-bearded foreigner. A lot of these stories have various references. The red-bearded foreigner is a reference to Bodhidharma, the great founder of Zen in China, whose statue is towards the left as I face it on the altar. And that's from Bodhidharma's temple, a piece of cypress. I visited a few summers ago, and one of my students in California bought it for us, that statue. But anyway, basically, Bai Zhang in this story praises Wang Po. So again, this is this other piece of this long story. This is many aspects of this story. Again, after the former Baizhang, now a fox, was awakened by Baizhang's answer, not ignoring cause and effect.

[25:24]

He asked to be given a monk's funeral, and Baizhang went ahead and did a monk's funeral for a fox. And then that evening, in his Dharma talk, Baizhang explained what had happened. He recounted the foregoing events. And Huangpu said, an ancient who gave a mistaken answer fell into the state of a wild fox for 500 lifetimes. What becomes of one who never makes a mistake? Come here and I'll tell you, Baizhang said, and Huangpu came up and slapped him. And the master was very happy at that, impressed. There's a problem in this story. If we don't ignore cause and effect, how can you then say that this fox suddenly becomes awakened and deserves a monk's funeral? Isn't that ignoring cause and effect? Or what is the cause and effect that would lead one to be reborn as a fox 500 lifetimes? It's a little problematical.

[26:33]

And Huangbo realized that. He said he realized there was something funny about Bai Zhang doing this, or something funny about the story completely. And there is. Again, In his book, Stephen Hine talks about not just the relationship to karma and precepts and how that changed in Dogen's interpretation. He talks about this as an example of what might be called the supernatural in Zen stories. So first of all, being born as a fox for 500 lifetimes and a fox appearing as an old man in the back of the assembly. So there's a lot of stuff going on in this story. And again, the point of these stories is not to solve them. In the Rinzai tradition, going back to Hakuin, there's a curriculum of stories.

[27:34]

And if you give a response that the teacher recognizes, you may go to the next story. But I would say that the point of all these stories is to study them enough so that they become part of your practice body. We never finish with any of these stories. So this story I first heard about, I don't know, probably 35 years ago and keep coming back to along with all of the good stories in the Koan collections. What does it mean to not be subject to cause and effect? What does it mean to not be blind to cause and effect? How do we realize that cause and effect, as Dogen says, is not a personal matter? Partly it is a personal matter, but it's not only a personal matter. The Great Earth, the prairies and lakes also are part of this. How do we see our practice in the world as in the role of Sangha supporting others to see and acknowledge their cause and effect?

[28:43]

How do we not ignore causes and conditions? Isn't there one of the 12 steps that's about acknowledging that one has a problem? So we have to not be ignoring or blind to causes and conditions. And yet, then, how do we help the planet and each other and whomever we are, whoever comes in front of us as the Fox Man came in front of Baishon, how do we help everyone, including ourselves, see our, how we are connected to cause and effect? And is there a way to see how we're connected to cause and effect without being caught by cause and effect?

[29:50]

So there's a subtle pivot here in this story. It's usually translated as the old man who became a fox said, no, a greatly cultivated person is not subject to cause and effect. And yet, can we pay attention to cause and effect and not be caught by it? The precepts are about not acting on cause and effect. And of course, as Wong Po indicates, maybe there's no one who doesn't make mistakes. How do we pay attention to our position in the world, our position in this body and mind, not our idea of it? How do we not become foxes? So this is the situation in this story. Does anyone have anything to say about it?

[30:56]

Douglas. Four Noble Truths are the existence of suffering, the cause of suffering, the image of suffering. Yes, there's mantas. And that's set out in greater detail in the Chain of Karmic Origination. And the whole point is, you break the whole chain of cause and effect of emotions and delusion that bind you, and that stops rebirth. orthodox, which makes the story a little more interesting too.

[32:03]

I think it's kind of interesting too that the story keeps And that's kind of interesting because I think the whole point with an answer would have been, well, no one falls into cause and effect. It's not that you're subject to it, it's cause and effect. You are cause and effect. There's nothing separate there. And that's part of, it's not that you're, From a practice standpoint, it seems to me, and sitting on the cushion standpoint, I think your point is a good one.

[33:27]

When we are not awake, we're dragged around by cause and effect and by emotions. When we wake up, a lot of practices sort of stepping out of that over and over and over again to see what's going on. It loosens that being dragged around in quite that way. That's what allows us to respond more authentically to that world of cause and effect that is Yeah, this is a story that needs to be studied for a lifetime or many lifetimes, as the Fox did.

[34:41]

Well, it doesn't say in the story, but he's freed, he's awakened, it says. And so presumably he'll come back and be a junior monk at Baizhang for a later teacher or something like that. He's freed from the fox body, he's freed from that kind of calamity and addiction. I like the fact that you mentioned the 12 steps because Don and I a month ago went to this talk on Buddhism and the 12 steps and I didn't know anything about the 12 steps before that talk and kind of one of the centerpieces of this guy's talk was on cause and effect and karma and one thing that he said is that the alcoholic thinks that he can beat cause and effect Yes. And that's kind of like the monk who then became a fox because now he thought that he could be causing an effect by being enlightened or whatever.

[36:06]

It's kind of an interesting connection. And yet, as Douglas mentions, there's a way in which his response was kind of orthodox. There's a funny story, it's a little nasty in some ways, I think, but Aitken Roshi tells it about one of his students going to a talk, I guess, in Hawaii, given by Kalu Rinpoche, who was a great teacher, last century, of Kaku lineage. who had his own upheaval with cause and effect after he died. But anyway, as part of the question and answers to the talk, one of... Aitken Roshi's smart-ass students asked Kala Rinpoche, and in Tibet they've never heard this story. This is a Zen story. This is part of our Zen traditions. He asked Kala Rinpoche, is a greatly cultivated person subject to cause and effect?

[37:06]

And Kala Rinpoche said, no, not subject. And they all kind of giggled. So, you know, this is part of Orthodox Buddhism, but this story is, I've been thinking about, in a couple of contexts, a kind of introduction to Zen classes, and, you know, Zen is about these great teaching stories, and this is one of the, you know, foremost ones. There's so many of them, really, that, and they kind of lean on each other, but, anyway, how do we, honor cause and effect and try to not be caught by it so much. So that's why, again, Dogen, and I want to emphasize again this, the idea of the precepts that there are guidelines to how we can remember that we are subject to cause and effect. And then the other thing I wanted to add to what Douglas was saying, and I want to hear more comments, that part of what

[38:08]

Zen and Japanese Buddhism and Dogon particularly talk about is to appreciate cause and effect, to appreciate the falling flowers, to appreciate the phenomenal world, the great earth and trees and grasses and mountains and rivers and prairies and lakes, that each of us is here, able to hear this story, able to take on spiritual practice because of causes and conditions. So it's thanks to the phenomenal world and the causes and conditions of our lives and maybe our past lifetimes and of course the causes and conditions of the whole world that we are able to take on this question, this kind of, you know, it's a live question. It's like in one of his, There is a commentary by Dogen about this story.

[39:12]

Let's see if I can find it. Where he calls it, oh, yeah. Again, he has a couple of essays in Shobo Gensho where he talks about it extensively. But in one of his Darn Long Discourses, because of the previous Baizhang saying that he did not fall into cause and effect, why did he descend into a wild fox body? As to the later Baizhang saying he was not blind to cause and effect, how did this cause the release from the Wild Fox Party? There's a problem here. Then Dogen said, I can't stand this wild fox monster shaking his head and wagging his tail. Stop, stop. So this is a story that Dogen himself was deeply disturbed by and concerned with through his life. So we have this fox monster as part of our Zen legacy. How do we take care of cause and effect respectfully?

[40:15]

Kathy? Well that I think is a key question and the way they keep coming at it, not to ignore cause and effect, So it was interesting to me why he comes at it in a negative way, not to ignore it, which seems to imply that if you're aware of it, that something's going to naturally happen to change your relationship to it. But that's a mystery. Good, yes. That's all I can say. And I think that's a really good point. We try to seal ourselves off. not fall into cause and effect anymore, I mean, you're not going to feel bad anymore, never going to be afraid, never going to be angry, no anxiety anymore.

[42:01]

I mean, the message of the story is, no, that's not it, it's going to keep coming back. The person in this room started sitting because they were hoping that that was going to change, that was going to stop. But then there is a change with the awareness and willingness to come back to not ignoring it. because to shock everybody and make a radical change like that so everybody is completely aware of that, that you can't ignore that, that was the whole point.

[43:07]

Another mystery, yes, and these ceremonies we do have some effect and we do ceremonies for the deceased and we don't know, so another mystery, we don't know what happens. There are various I like it that there are various different descriptions of what happens after death. How do we, and the point is, how do we awaken all beings and relieve suffering? That's the point of Buddhism in this practice. How do we do that? And then also, how do we do that in the context of a world that is, through the causes and conditions of, well, all of the benefits that Americans with this high standard of living that, you know, that our political and corporate leaders want to protect and so forth, compared to people in Africa who feel like, who say that because of not doing anything about what's happened to the climate, they face a holocaust, that it's already happening.

[44:22]

And, you know, so it's not just personal. And yet, yeah, something happens. So, yes, the point of the funeral was to share this story, to get people to pay attention to it who are still living. But also, how do we change? cause and effect. We don't ignore cause and effect. How do we change the situation, the causes and conditions of this world? I don't know. That's a great mystery, too. One of my slogans, though, awareness is transformative. So, whereas the rest of the world and 100,000 people demonstrating in the streets of Copenhagen testify to it, understand the scientists' consensus and conventional reality is that there is damage happening. in this country also through causes and conditions. We don't believe it. A lot of people don't believe it.

[45:24]

This is just one example, but it's an important example because it's going to affect all of us. In many other ways, how do we actually let go of addiction, personally and collectively? How do we change our awareness so that we do acknowledge cause and effect, but to some extent act in a way that will, you know, cause and effect isn't something out there. We are cause and effect. Everything, for the second noble truth that there is cause and effect, that there is a cause of suffering means that everything that happens has some cause, and there's a personal aspect to that in our own lives, but there's also a collective aspect. But also, everything that we do has some effect. So, bringing awareness of our relationship to cause and effect, bringing awareness of our own patterns of addictiveness, and so forth, in itself, that awareness is transformative.

[46:33]

So yes, Baizhang did this to try and wake up the other monks, yes. And we talk about this and we've been talking about this story for a thousand years for the same reason. Shocking enough so we can't ignore it. Yeah, and then, you know, we don't have to do too much to, you know, I mean, the world we're living in, this is a great time to practice because there's so many problems. And, you know, who knows where the next Katrina will be in the United States. There have been many more all around the world. Who knows what will be the next shock in our own personal lives. We live in a world in which there is loss, there is change. Good things happen too. And then people we love move away or pass away or, you know, things happen. All of these are reminders that we can't ignore cause and effect, and yet we do practice in the world of cause and effect and try and help, and try and pay attention, and try and be aware.

[47:39]

So part of our cause and effect is that we also have a temple-cleaning period after our sitting. But if there's another comment, anyone, or reflection about this story, we're not going to solve it this morning, after a thousand years of people struggling with it. Dawn, did you have something? Well, I just keep thinking about, I guess, my thoughts on cause and effect. Just by the basic, when I sit, and even today I look ahead an inch, right off, I'm like, to sit through this whole sitting with this itch. And it's not that I can't scratch it. I could, but I'd like to sit with it because that's the first reaction. So it's this cause and effect and it makes me more aware than when I go out. Just that single thing really makes me aware when I go out.

[48:46]

Just the little things that happen in my insides So to slow down and to stop and pay attention and think, it makes me think differently. It changes my view. So I look more, instead of going out and yelling at the person who cut me off, then I maybe stop. You know, like the itch. So it's kind of a really basic, simple thing. Two questions. Did the itch remain through the entire period of zazen? Aha. Very interesting phenomenon. And it is. And that's what it is, too. You know, when I go out there, I'm not angry if I don't yell at the guy or girl. Yeah. Second question, though. There are some teachers, even in this country, who, if you scratched yourself, would say, stop scratching!

[49:49]

I've experienced that. Or they might come over and hit you. Would you like me to do that kind of thing? No. Good. Thank you. I prefer not to.

[50:04]

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