Well, today we're going to carry our look of love that we've been talking about and thinking about. That look that the Lord gives us and that we've learned to try to look upon ourselves with that same love and mercy. and look on one another with that same love and mercy. And so, today we come to the term of all our gazing, you might say, and that's to look on God with that long look of love. And I think each of us knows in one way or another a longing to see the face of God. to glimpse, even for a moment, His glory, like Moses, so long to do. And the Psalms express this yearning over and over. Psalm 4, lift up the light of your face on us, O Lord. And Psalm 26, show me your face.

[01:05]

It is your face, O Lord, that I seek. Hide not your face. And not only the cry of desire, but there's even an assurance, as in Psalm 16, So this is a very basic desire of the human heart. But as monastics, it becomes our profession. We are seekers. And that's what has brought us to the monastery. And though each one of us has a unique way, very individual, the one whom we seek is one. And it is his face, the face of God in Christ Jesus, that draws each of us on.

[02:07]

I think that it's this pull, you might almost say like the pull of a magnet, which enables a monk to stay with prayer even when there seems to be only distraction or a sort of emptiness that one can't even glorify by the name of prayer. At least that's my experience. In a sense, we instinctively live out what the fathers and the mystics have always taught. To use Gregory of Nyssa's words, he who wants to see God will do so in an endless seeking him. The contemplation of his face is an endless walking toward him. For me, the one who epitomizes this constant seeking of God is the bride in the Song of Songs. And in a way, I see many similarities between this bride and the monk described in the Rule of Saint Benedict.

[03:21]

The literary genre couldn't be more different, but underlying both is a dynamism of love. from the moment the monk enters the monastery after long probation to the moment of what I call integration, when finally, through the labor of obedience and humility, he runs with enlarged heart in an inexpressible sweetness of love. There's a constant movement forward under the impulse of love. Where is he running if not toward the bridegroom? That isn't to the arms of the loving father From whom he had departed so long ago And the bride too is returning for she too resisted her beloved and

[04:26]

Her love was not strong enough in the hour of testing, and so she too lost for a while the only one who could give her life. You may remember that in the song where she wasn't ready to get up to open. In chapter five of the song, the bride had to learn to pass by substitutes for the beloved. and to let go of props to her self-esteem. And she's even wounded in her flight, and her cloak is stripped from her. She had to go beyond all things, security and possessions, honor and success. And she had to pass by even the watchmen who should have been there to help her. She had to keep going into the mystery of a presence obtained only through self-transcendence.

[05:36]

I feel that there's a meaning here for each of us because our journey to God, too, requires the same. And the longer I live, the more I observe persons who are really sincere in their dedication to God and the life of prayer, the more I see that we will be purified in one way or another. And the purification will always in some way strip us. It will be an emptying so we can run faster. And her seeking was in the night. And ours also is often in the night. Not only the material dark of vigils and night prayer, but the darkness of absence, which I think we all experience at times.

[06:42]

I sought him, but I did not find him. Gregory the Great gives us some consolation on this point. I'd like to quote him. The bridegroom hides when he is sought, so that not finding him, the bride may seek him with a renewed ardor. And the bride is hampered in her search, so that this delay may increase her capacity for God. and that she may find one day more fully what she was seeking. For us, the inner darkness may be more than dryness in prayer. It may be the darkness of doubt. Faith may be shaky, and even hope. I guess if the little flower could doubt her own salvation even at the end of her life, we must expect some questions along the way that will shake us personally.

[07:55]

But it's so hard to realize when we are going through these times that this too is part of seeking God. And this darkness is as much a part of our prayer as is the moment of insight or the experience of his presence. So we are all drawn to look on God with love. And I think that the ascetic practices of the monastic life are geared to preparing our hearts for this vision. And some practices seem more directly related to quieting our hearts and enabling us to see. And there are three that I have in mind, which I question if I should even mention because I'm sure you're already so, so, they are so much a part of your own lives.

[09:02]

But then I thought, well, retreat isn't a time for thinking up novel ideas, but it's more a time to revitalize what we are already living. So, if you're willing, I'd like to reflect a bit on Lectio, on mindfulness, and on what I call monastic care. Each of these can in some way free us to look on God. And it might seem strange to kind of shift gears now from speaking about the search of the bride for her beloved to what we would call disciplines. But I think these disciplines have value. only because they are vitally related to that search.

[10:06]

They are proven paths along which we run to the one whom we seek. At least that's the way I would see them. So to begin, I'd like to tell a story that may not seem to be directly related to Lectio Divina, but which for me expresses the essence of Lectio. Are any of you familiar with the story of the Great Stone Face? Oh, that's good. No, no. You don't count. Besides, I told it to you. The story is written by Haasarn. And originally, I always thought, I always pictured this story coming from Upper New York. But it turns out that it's not Upper New York. It's somewhere in New England. And I think it's New Hampshire. And I told the story at Genesee. And lo and behold, one of the monks who's from New Hampshire knew the mountain that this story is about.

[11:13]

And his father took a picture of the mountain and sent it to me. So this is real, although it is a legend. So the story is about a mountain. And this mountain, when you look at it from a certain vantage point, looks like a face, the profile of a very noble and fine face. And the legend goes that there is a valley just at the base of this mountain. And the people who live in this valley, first of all, claim this face as their own. This is their great stone face. And they believe that someday a man will arise out of the village who will in some way reflect the features of the stone face. He will be that stone face incarnate.

[12:14]

And the story opens with a little boy named Ernest and his mother has told him the legend or the story of the great stone face and he gets very excited and he hopes that someday he will see that man who looks like the great stone face. And Ernest gets to really like to look at the face. And very often he'll stop playing for a while and just kind of sit down and look up at that face. And he'll see all kinds of things in it. He'll see wisdom and he'll see kindness and goodness. And it's just very inspiring for him. So while Ernest is a young boy, rumor has it that A very wealthy man who once lived in the village but moved out and made a lot of money is coming back to the village. And everybody's thinking, maybe this man who's so successful is going to be the Great Stone Face.

[13:23]

So there's a lot of anticipation and earnestness with the crowds as they gathered to await the coming of the man. And he drives into the village with his great big car, whatever he drives in. And the people kind of look at him and, well, they're not too sure. But when Ernest looks at him, he kind of sees a shriveled up yellow face. And it doesn't look too much like the great stone face that he's been used to. And it turns out that Mr. Gathergold is not the great stone face. So then rumor has it that a great general is returning to his village, and he has been a successful army officer. And again, they begin to think, well, perhaps this is the great stone face. Ernest is older now, and he's been plying his trade as, I think he was a tailor. And he's gained quite a bit of wisdom in his years.

[14:26]

And people are very fond of Ernest. So they all go out together with Ernest and wait for the general to arrive. And when they look on the general, Ernest sees a very hard face, a face that doesn't really have the kindness and wisdom that he's grown to love in the great stone face. So years pass, Ernest grows older and older, and in the evenings the villagers would come out to Ernest's home and he would talk with them and share some of the wisdom of life that he's gained. And the villagers always leave Ernest just feeling kind of better for having talked with him. And Ernest starts reading a book of poetry that a villager has written. And he's very inspired by this poetry. It has a great deal of depth and warmth and goodness in it.

[15:31]

And Ernest thinks, perhaps if I could meet the man who wrote this poetry. That would be the Great Stone Face. And one night, he's sitting by his cabin, and he's reading the poetry, and a stranger comes along and sits down beside him. And they get to talking, and finally it turns out that the stranger is the poet. And Ernest looks at him, and he doesn't see the features of the Great Stone Face, and he's puzzled. And he speaks his question, and the poet says, well, I understand your disappointment, but you see, what I write is good, but I don't really believe it all the time, and I don't really live it. So I'm sorry, but I haven't been able to live up to the aspirations that I write about. So that evening, the poet and Ernest gather with the people. And Ernest begins to talk to the people as he has all his life, really.

[16:35]

And in the evening light, the poet looks at Ernest and then looks at the stone face. And he says, there's the great stone face. And everybody sees the resemblance. So Ernest is the incarnate great stone face. So I see that story as an image of something of what Lectio Divina is like. Because Ernest contemplated an image which he loved day after day, and over the years he grew to resemble the one that he looked on so lovingly. Loving contact begets likeness. And in our daily Lectio, in our daily listening to the Word in the liturgy, or in our own private reading, we constantly expose our hearts to the Word of God.

[17:40]

And gradually we can become like the Word. The features of the Word begin to take form in us. We had a regional meeting at Vina a few years ago, And we drew up a paper that was called Instruments for Ongoing Formation and Conversion. And one section was devoted to Lectio and Conversion. And I really liked the description of Lexio that we finally, after much blood, sweat, and tears, came to accept. There's nothing like a group trying to write a document. So we suffered through it. But this was very good, I thought. Lectio is a form of prayer in which the released energy of the word liberates the reader to embody that word in a transformed way of living.

[18:43]

Through the process of Lectio, the word engages the monk and the monk in turn interiorizes the word and re-expresses it in his or her lived context. So, we could say that in Lectio, the Word of God actually becomes incarnate again, but now in our lives. Our heart becomes the womb of the Virgin, and as we attend in silence to that Word, we allow it to take form, to take flesh, our flesh, and to become visible in us. And we are different for having dwelt with the Word and allowed the Word to dwell in us. It does make a difference. And this transformation of the Word into our flesh is a long and slow process.

[19:50]

We have to be willing to spend time with the Word when it really may seem like a waste of time. Having a regular time for Lectio and being faithful to that time can help us through the dry spots. And sometimes I question, and maybe you do too, whether I actually let the Word challenge my attitudes toward events or toward people in my life. Do I really take the Word of God seriously? And especially I ask myself, do I go to the Word in time of confusion or sadness or times of fatigue? In other words, do I allow the Word to heal or to nourish me? I think we also need to let the Word be free.

[20:56]

I wouldn't want to tame the Word of God. so that it could no longer challenge me or really provoke a spontaneous response on my part. And that's one of the dangers of constant contact, that it loses its edge to really say something to me. And as Gigo the Carthusian teaches in his Four Steps of Lectio, Normally that word will gradually lead us through meditation and prayer to contemplation, to silence, and to that long look of love. Jesus said, no one can come to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know him. You will see him. And in answer to Philip, who, like us, probably thinks he has never had any real religious experience, and wouldn't Jesus please show them the Father, Jesus says patiently, Philip, how can you say, show me the Father?

[22:11]

Have I been with you so long, walked with you, talked with you, shared my life with you, and yet you do not know me? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. So we do see the face of God in His Son. And sometimes this face is radiant and full of joy. And sometimes the face of Christ is in sorrow, wounded. The face of one of whom Isaiah spoke, he has no charm to attract us, no beauty to win our hearts. He who was despised, a man of sorrows, one from whom we averted our gaze. There is, it seems to me, no wound that we will suffer on our journey that is not already present in the face of Christ.

[23:19]

And I think that's why it's good to look at it often. The second spiritual practice that I'd like to mention is mindfulness. And this really springs from our community, although I have to say that it springs from our community because your brother David spoke that word to our community many years ago. And gradually, it became ours. in the sense that we felt the need of something to help us to grow in interiority. Visitation after visitation would kind of surface this need in the community, or what we felt was a lack of interiority. And in one visitation, We kind of hit upon this sense of mindfulness as a way to help ourselves to deepen interiority within the community or within each one of us.

[24:27]

And I think the word may have different meanings for different people, so I should tell you how I understand it or how we understand it. Mindfulness means simply to do what you are doing. to attend fully to the present moment. If I'm washing the dishes, I want to be really present to washing the dishes and not planning next week's schedule or tomorrow's chapter talk. And if I'm speaking with a person, I want to be really present to the person. And it is a discipline. And it's also a practice of faith. Because mindfulness means that I won't stop at human causes, but that I hear in the very conditions of my work, or in the very nature of my activity, the call of God to be here, right now.

[25:31]

And so I yield to God in the here and now. And I find that this practice can really dispose one to be wholly present in prayer. Distractions in prayer seem to be the bane of our spiritual existence, but the capacity to be distracted or scattered is just as operative in other occupations. And once we form the habit of split attention or partial attendance, then I think we compromise the possibility for simple and loving attention. Reverent attention in any one area of our lives can spill over into other areas. The monk that Saint Benedict describes in the 12th degree of humility is mindful.

[26:34]

Nothing that's asked of him is below him and he attends to his menial work as he would to the office and choir. And this brings me to the third practice or monastic discipline, which I call monastic care. Saint Benedict had a keen sense of the relatedness of the sacred and of the profane. And for him, everything is sacred, is worthy of our care and reverence. Treat all the tools of the monastery as if they were the sacred vessels of the altar. For many years, a monk of New Mellory, Brother Placid, ran our farm. And Brother is a jack-of-all-trades and a master of most of them. And he's a man of very few words, so you had to be careful when he was giving the instructions, because if you missed it, you missed it.

[27:38]

But to work with him for an hour was like a crash course in everything from farming to carpentry to growing grapes and then to making jam out of the grapes or to cranking out apple cider straight from his orchard. But the one thing that Brother taught without ever saying a word was his care. He really had a reverence for all growing things and for tools and machinery. And he'd catch us trying to make a screwdriver do the job of a crowbar, and he'd hand us a crowbar, and he'd show us how to use it, because you can even misuse a crowbar. And his care really sprang from a deep and humble respect for all things. Of course, this care and reverence is not only for things, but even more importantly, for all living beings, our brothers and our sisters.

[28:44]

Richard Byrne, who's a monk of New Mallory, in his doctoral thesis on the contemplative dimension of life, wrote, the final moment of care is contemplation. Related to this sense of reverence and care for persons and things is a certain reverence for time. I don't know if you ever have a problem with a tendency to rush or with the frustrating feeling that you don't have enough time. People in the world think that monks have loads of time and that we just sort of patter around the monastery with not too much to do. It's not true of Mississippi, and I'm pretty sure it's not true of Mount Savior. We always seem to have too much to do, and the common cry is that we need more time.

[29:48]

And I think that if it's really chronic, then maybe there's something that needs to be looked at in the regimen of the monastery. But sometimes I think it isn't a question of time, but of our attitude toward time. It's possible to have a sense of leisure in our use of time. Sometimes when I'm writing a letter or speaking with someone on the phone, I really have to slow myself down. Because I know that I won't give that person quality time or thought if I keep rushing. I'm going to skip over just a little bit because this is going on now for a long talk. And so I'm just going to conclude. Lectio and mindfulness and reverence and care for persons and things.

[30:50]

All of these can help us in our search for God. And like the bride in the Song of Songs, we want to be ready to meet the Lord when he comes to us. And it helps to remember that God wants to be found. There's a Hasidic story of a master who had a grandson, and he was watching the grandson play, and the boy was playing with a friend hide-and-seek. And so the master's grandson went off and hid. But his friend got tired of looking for him, so instead of Finding him, his friend went home. And so the little boy started crying because there was no more game, because nobody was looking for him. And he went to his grandfather and wept on his shoulder. And his grandfather wept too.

[31:53]

And he said, that is the way it is with God. He's hiding, wanting to be found, and nobody's looking for him. So we want to look for God who wants to be found and wants to be seen. I'd suggest Psalms 26, 4, 41, and 23. So any thoughts? questions, insights to share. By the way, you really can see a face in that mountain. It's a profile.

[32:55]

It's in New York, you said? No, it's in New Hampshire. I think it's New Hampshire. It's in the Pemijawasak Valley. Pardon? It's in the Pemijawasak Valley. Oh, have you seen it? Yes, I have. Is that right? Great. I never read Hawthorne's story, but I've heard of it, and I got around to it. Isn't that something? I have it if you want to read it. I'll leave it here, because it's much longer. There are a few more people who come home. White Mountains. White Mountains, of course. It's a beautiful country. Did you know this story, brother? Oh, really? I only know one. I haven't heard any of the others. I see.

[34:04]

All about this great stone face? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. but it's not really a lake, it's a pond and the face reflects down into it. And the problem is now it's falling apart. You've got to put cables and chains up there and everything. Is that right? The main thing is I think it's the port that's falling apart. I see. He's getting old. Actually, the Hampshire Highway Department does the work. And the guy that's been in charge for a long, long time just retired. And the other big thing is the sun is now taking over. Chris, it's probably a tourist attraction, so they want to keep it up. Good.

[35:06]

Curiosity. The monastic practice of Lectio these days has competition from other things like meditation and Zen and much fun to sing. Right. I watched her one monk explain how five minutes of Lectio a day was enough. It would startle me. I'm just wondering, what's your experience of that in Mississippi? Well, we have had some experience because several of our sisters, in fact, one of the things I skipped was saying a little bit about a Zen retreat that I had made. And several of our sisters have made Zen retreats. And we have a group that prays right after vigils in church, in the circle. They chose church. It's really the only place that we have where you'd be able to do it at that time of day. And a couple of the younger sisters have talked with me about the fact that now they are giving kind of prime time to this meditation.

[36:22]

And what does that do to their Lectio? Because for us Lectio usually would be in that very special time after vigils, you know, that quiet time. And so I would see it as something that you really need to look at very seriously, because I don't think that they could keep up a life of prayer without Lectio and serious Lectio. So each one has to work it out for herself, but they do face that question and they do try to integrate both. The meditation itself, is kind of a different kind of prayer than what flows from Lectio. But I feel that, now this is my experience and you may have had another experience, after you've lived monastic life and kind of developed a sense of the Lectio and the effects of the Lectio within your life, then I think you bring it to that quiet meditation

[37:24]

even though you may not be thinking it consciously. But then, even at that, I would still keep up Lexio at another time. That's how I do it. But would anybody else have other experience? That's very kind of you. And you see at the same time, you know, during the same period. Yeah, that special quiet time. Yeah. It was so engaging. That's right. How much time would you have for exit there in Mississippi? We have from, our vigil is at 3.15 over about 4. So we have from 4 o'clock and LODS is at 6.30. Now, in that time, the sisters may eat breakfast, but they don't have to. They can eat breakfast after Mass. Most of them do eat it during that time, though, so it's a good two hours straight, and then a little more. And then we have in the evening, we try to balance our day between early morning and evening.

[38:31]

We don't have as much time as you do, but from... Vespers is at 5.30, and then our supper is optional. So from, say, about 6.15 until 7.15 is another time that we usually try to keep quiet, although people can visit at that time. Correct. Confidence at 715. Do you have anything else, Kathleen, about the... Yeah. Well, we do pray together in church in silence after Vespers. Oh, yeah. It's interesting, just regarding that. When I first made, the only one I made, a Zen retreat, I had with me one of our sisters, who is our novice mistress, and she was very much against this quiet time of prayer after Vespers together.

[39:34]

She wanted us to all go wherever we wanted to to pray. It's been our tradition to have this quiet prayer after Vespers. I always thought it was kind of nice and I wasn't too keen on getting rid of it, but I wanted to listen. So anyway, we went to this Christian Zen retreat where you sit around and there's 40 of you or however many praying together in silence. After that retreat, Carol said to me, you know, now I really think that's not such a bad idea that we have this quiet time of prayer together, because it's something like it. Of course, it's not exactly like it. But there's something to the quiet prayer together. So we still do it. At that time, people can read a book. or is it just kind of meditation? After Vespers, it would be quiet prayer. You can do anything. One sutra says to Rosary, you can do anything, but most people just pray quietly, more meditation.

[40:37]

I like your vigils very much, by the way. It's really very nice, very quiet. Kathleen and I were saying that we like your office very much, too. It's very well done, and there's a simplicity about it. It's easy to enter into it. Well? No, I just said that it's not related to today. Oh, that's fine. Anything, anything. We were talking about love and loving the community. We talk about love all the time, but we have never said what love is. I think we probably each have a different idea of love, and maybe that's where many of the confusions come. Because this person doesn't love the way I imagine love to be. Perhaps it would be interesting to talk about it. See how each person considers that love is expressed, what is love.

[41:49]

As you talk, it reminds me of something that happened in our community just before I left. We had a dialogue on Saturday, which is our usual dialogue day, and it was a very difficult dialogue. It was hard that we were facing something that was difficult. And afterwards, I asked the sisters if they'd jot down what they felt it might be good for us to pursue as a result of that dialogue. And one of the sisters wrote down, could we look at and talk about our expectations of one another in community. Because sometimes our expectations are different. And that's what causes the difficulty sometimes. I think this is the way that we express love, to use your example. Whereas someone else might think there's another way of expressing love, or a better way. So I don't know whether that... Does that sound similar to what you have in mind, Brother Stephen? I think one thing is in order to sponsor this love and that is just to trust that the other person will express the love in a way

[43:00]

I imagine it to be that this other person loves in his own way, but not to be suspicious that this other person is not loving somehow. Yeah, it can be taught in community. Just to be sure that there is love in the community, whether it's expressed one way or the other, and whether it's expressed... Anybody have some thoughts on that? But Stephen, you're saying, well, I'm not quite sure what you said. You said it's important that it be expressed. Well, not so much that it be expressed, no. As I understood... No, please go ahead. It doesn't really have to be expressed, but just to realize the capacity that the other person has got. A trust that they have. And then, you know, maybe analyze it or what is it that is what I expect or what I call love if that really love is just an expression of love which is typical to to my upbringing or to my temperament or whatever there's another suspicion that the other person is not loving in other words if I'm

[44:14]

If I expect it to get, to receive love in particular ways I'm accustomed to, that's likely to cause trouble, because it places all sorts of expectations on the other brother. Yeah, and I think also it comes to a point where you have to ask yourself, what is love? Is it just an expression, or is it something deeper? I mean, is love something that you just go around and hug this person and pat them on the back, or is it something that can be applied, or this person is there when I need them? I don't think there are too many modes of expression that are different. And then basically, what is love? It's kind of very difficult. Some ideas, that would be that it can be manifested in various ways. and a man, it certainly could be manifested in a different way than people of the same sex. You can have a very high esteem and regard for somebody, and yet it doesn't have that many, it doesn't mean much physical intimacy.

[45:21]

And yet you can be independent, and older you get when you reflect on it. So it's, of course, I suppose if some people, I guess, enter the life of the, I can't speak for anybody else, if your expectation is that you're going to have a lot of joy and intimacy, an awful lot of people are going to be disappointed. You can't find the same degree of intimate affection in the monastic life that you're going to find in the marital state. It's one view of looking at the thing, but... I was also thinking, what is our idea of love? Because love can become possessive then, and then it's not love. I mean, let's put an example myself.

[46:22]

As a younger person, I used to feel compassion for the girls that wouldn't dance, let's say, or something like that. ask to dance. But then this became more involved. And then after a while, I found myself with You know, they wanted to possess me, to have me, I mean, take me to the altar, which was not my intention. Then you have to turn to this person at a point and then tell, you know, do you let this person progress in its idea out of love or where do you stop it? We were talking about discerning the spirits. I have a human example too. Kathleen is the one who always talks about this, or maybe you should tell it. Do you remember? No, but you and Gilchrist. Yeah, that's the example.

[47:24]

I thought that was the abstract. I don't know if many of you have read, I'm sure some of you have read C.S. Lewis's The Script Take Letters. And he talks about unselfishness in there. Now, he puts it as a difference between men and women, but I see it more as a difference, since you're familiar with the Myers-Briggs, between thinking types and feeling types, really. He describes it as masculine notions of unselfishness and feminine. But I would see it as, the one he says is, which I would relate to thinking types. For them, unselfishness means not making demands on others. So if you tend to be that way, your tendency is to expect that people are not going to place unreasonable demands. And also, for instance, because I am a thinking type, my notion of love in my community tends to include, among other things, that I don't ask for a lot of special stuff, because that would be my notion of what's being selfish. uh... whereas the other type, the feeling type, the notion of unselfishness tends to be more doing things for others so uh... so feelers can tend to have more of a tendency to on the one hand to actually go out of their way to do nice little things, they're better at remembering birthdays and sending cards but on the other hand also then they tend to expect that others will do... that's their notion of what love should be

[48:44]

And the example Gail was referring to, one time, I'm a thinking type, and there's a good friend in the community, Mr. Gilchrist, who's a feeling type, otherwise we're identical in my experience. And we were having supper together one night, and we were both going on a retreat day, but we were going to spend the night in the same house. And we were having supper together, and we'd invited Gail to come and join us for supper. And at the end of the supper, it was really funny, because we were having a nice time. It was kind of time for Kaplan, time for Gail to go back to Kaplan, I guess. And anyway, Gilchrist was saying, oh, Gail, you know what? Oh, I guess we had given up on Kaplan and Gail had stayed at home. Anyway, Gilchrist was saying, oh, wouldn't it be lovely? We could stay a while. We could have a nice talk and all that stuff. And I was, oh, Gail, please feel free to come. Don't be upset. And we were both really, I realized afterwards, we were both trying to express our love, and I felt very embarrassed at this guilt crisis. I thought pressuring the abbess to give up her precious time to be with us. But of course, I'm sure she saw it just the other way as, you know, as an expression, you know, an expression of her affection.

[49:51]

And we ran across another one just recently. I needed somebody to drive me to the airport. That's why I was coming back to Washington. And there were very few people left, and Gilchrist said to me, well, why don't you ask Gail? And I was saying, well, you know, I'd hate to do that, you know, because she's busy. And I think, oh, she said, don't be like that. She said, you know, you need to show her that because she'll do it because Gail's a feeling type. But I think it is a good example of our expectations and how both we're trying to love. And I think we as individuals will love according to our understanding of love. And it can be very different for different people. But we haven't answered your question, have we, Stephen? What is love? I guess it's one of those things you can't answer. It's hard. You're aware that there are... Different ways of loving. Basically, supposedly desiring the good of the other.

[50:52]

Or respect also for the person, the other as a person, as a creature of God. And you can do that quietly. There are different ways of expressing that. Another example, let's say, a practical example, let's say, in my family, let's say my brother and the wife with the children, The wife asked my brother that he'd be the disciplinarian, and she was the one that consented them. Consoled them, you mean. Yeah, and allowed them, you know, when he was this strict, she would console him and say, oh no, she's being, you know, but she asked him to be that. Well, he loved them, but they, the children, to this day, love their mother more than their father. And that I thought was kind of sad. Because their father loved them as deeply as she did. And yet they were both expressed in different ways. And it can turn out to be sad.

[51:59]

I mean, it took it all right. I was watching from the outside and I heard the nephews complaining about their dad and I still hear them. And I said, well, you just don't know your dad. Everything wrong. All the things the house has provided for you, everything that you worked for, it was just for you, you know. But they valued more the nice word, you know. They weren't like your daughters. Those things, I think the mother and father should work that way. It's just kind of sad that the others didn't realize those two dimensions of love. Excuse me. Yes. Thank you. It's abstract in a certain way, but I forgot precisely that it's something like, I am glad that you are. But it's a real heartfelt gladness.

[53:02]

It looks as if that's sort of affection. Or I willed it you more or something. Actually, it was something like, I want the other to live to the full. And unfortunately for some people, it means a good kick in the ass at the right time. In the camp in Sudan, some campings, they let go, they let go, they let go. But at the same time, I don't think it's outlawed. They don't want to take the responsibility. Yeah, but not any style of use. Yeah, also. No, no. I mean, usually you used to be able to slap a kid. Now it's child abuse. Now if you do that, it's child abuse. You can get into very big trouble. But to really will the other to be, and to will the other to be happy and to grow. I think that's pretty fundamental.

[54:04]

of the love and the way I considered it, of the other person. I was just looking at these acrobats, these Russian acrobats. They had an article in New York Times Magazine, and then it showed, I had always thought of that, and it shows the hand of one holding the other one. And I think that's what God does. It's the hand that comes out when you really, when you jump, take that, fall into that. space and you know, I mean, if that hand doesn't come and grab you at the right time, you're going to... Splash. Splash and break all your bones and I think that's what the lover does. It's that hand, the hand that's there at the right time and has the grip there to hold you when you jump. I mean, it's not a hand that's taking you around and All the time holding your hand so you can... to lead you in the walk, it's the hand that leads you, but that catches you when you're... But expectations in communities, it's a good thing to get those kind of clear, because I think that that can be a problem, that we have expectations, we have different expectations of what community will be.

[55:17]

Throwing one more bet forward, I recently read something about love and this guy borrowed some very strange images from biology that I've never heard of. He was talking about the need for creatures to maintain boundaries and a certain amount of distance between each other. And he pointed out that we take very simple-celled creatures like amoeba and put them in such close proximity that they touch when they try The next time they try to divide, they disintegrate. They can't tolerate having their cell walls right up against another amoeba. It just doesn't work. They need distance. And that seems to be the way to restrain biology that I forget. But essentially, You kind of need both of those things. The ability to maintain a certain amount of distance and be very close at the same time. There's no simple equation to pull off both of those things at the same time. It's kind of a matter of constant discernment.

[56:20]

Do you think it's to realize the goodness in the loving community? And to trust us. set to believe in each other, in their fundamental good. There's something that struck me, Mark, in talking to one of our sisters. Two of our sisters were very close friends, and they were having some difficulties in their friendship, and I was talking with one of them. And the impression I had was that this was a very good spiritual friendship. But I almost had the sense from one of them It was, you know, I mean, we have to be doing this deep spiritual friendship thing all the time, and I thought, you know, don't the two of you just go off and have fun sometimes, you know? I think there can be something of that. You know, where it seems to me it's almost too much effort fall, and too looking at it all the time, and what's friendship about, and analyzing it. You know, and I think, and I would use friendship just as a model of what goes on in a community, whether it's a deep personal relationship or not.

[57:26]

But, you know, just the ability to enjoy one another's company without worrying exactly about precisely whether this is spiritually profitable or not. I mean, I think one can assume that even more frivolous things, or just more commonplace things, can be very significant in our love for one another, and in our... Maybe some of that's necessary, I think, to come to understand what is love and what love really means. I think what I expect from love is just being able to be with one another without having to communicate. Repeat that. To be able to be with one another without having to communicate verbally or whatever. That's just sort of a contemplative dimension of love. Just being there with that. To be with one another in silence. I'm comfortable being in silence with another person means that there is something. Very quiet but very respectful. There's a bond that doesn't need explanation.

[58:31]

I remember years ago, I saw Thornton Wilder's Our Town, and it was sort of revolutionary then, because there was a minimum amount of scenery. It was supposed to be a little town. I've forgotten off the map, there's some corners, but there was this man and a woman in a rocking chair, and said, you know, before we got married, I was wondering if we'd ever have run out of things to talk about. So really, an express is in a way, It's just being each other's presence sometimes is sufficient. There are times when we're in here watching something on television, and the fact that then there'll be some batter going around, somebody will make a comment, and it's a very stimulating, wonderful feeling to be in a community like this. And yet, not trying to dissect everybody else, what's he thinking about, what's he doing? Let everyone be himself. That's quite all right.

[59:35]

You were referring to your community. You're not a mixed community yet. Thank you.

[59:44]

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