Before I start, is there something, some question that any one of you has? What's your question? We're moving the box for three days, then we're out to America, because I don't expect to do it. I don't know what the point is, but I don't think I can do it. Three days, we don't have any special company. What's the problem? I don't know. Same thing. Long, slow, deep exhales. We don't accept whatever breath arises. It's a short breath. We know we have a short breath. If we have a long breath, we know we have a long breath.

[01:06]

We don't try to do anything. That's natural. That's what we do. So it's always putting money, not putting out. There's another. What is this about? What formality is this? What is this? And depending on what formality this event follows, or what formality does this? Well, are you asking how should you actually drive the fighting after? But we thought we would set it up this way so that we might have a different experience of the morning talk and the afternoon talk. And it's just more formal, and it's maybe more accessible. It's obviously going to be more accessible for the family. It's just something else that I work with and feel. But not that we want you to be, as I thought before, and I thought that you will feel free to move, just as you have just moved into a posture that doesn't claim your entire emotion while we're here today.

[02:19]

We can package that through two-hour lectures with my knee and leg screening and because we irritated the . So that's not entirely . But it is to allow it to be present. And . So that caused you to be using this rule on this situation for a path of thought. We enter the front way. We always enter the front way, the left way, the left side, the back. We always walk behind the altar. And when these other times arrange this way, people just come directly to us. I don't know how you ended up on that town, but I guess we speak the world first and everything.

[03:23]

So again, we come to your seat, whichever one you select, or if you point it out for me, I want you to put the cushion back, and then we bow, and turn clockwise, and we bow away, and then you sit with us, just as I did. But then I just, you know, Well, I think this is intelligent practice. And we do have certain suggestions that we make based on 2,500 years that come down to us going back a little bit of time. But if it doesn't work for you, if a particular instruction seems not to work for you, and you've tried it, you've given it some try, it's OK to shift context up.

[04:31]

The point is to have some focus of concentration, so that there's some real interest and energy in that point of awareness for yourself. The tip of the nostril isn't such a point for you. And further up in the nostril, the receptive point, that's OK. To be one, it shouldn't change too much, but it's okay as your practice develops for it to change. In fact, your awareness changes, and that's the only thing that changes. Yes? Yes. .

[05:32]

We do want to mess up with these . We do want to work with them. This is a physical practice. It's not just something we're feeding the mind. And when you start doing something, You don't know what to do with your hands. You don't know what to do with your feet. And your mind is just stuck around. So fuck the whole process. Get messed up. That's the stupid way we mess ourselves up. So we're not doing any special code. And please don't feel intimidated by the particular form, even though people tell us that they've been coming to Casa Jara for 18 years and they've been there except for the district. Because they were very much about it, they'd never be able to get out of it. I couldn't do that, but we know that we're intimidating good people because it's so formal in our experience. But we don't have experience with such a formality.

[06:33]

It's pretty good to try something like this and find out what the problems are for us. And some of us love it. Some of us love the form. Just give me a rule, and I'll follow it. I'll always know what to do, and I'll never know when it's fake, and I'll always be fake. And other people do not feel that people can stand it. So whatever our nature is, the other side is always there. If we love rules, it's because there's some belief that death is not real. It wants to be free and to live forever. That's our nature. It wants to be free and to live forever. And if we don't abide by rules, that's because the rules are already very strong within us. So whatever is in our consciousness when it's manifested, The other side is all the same. Well, it goes right around that thing.

[07:34]

This is all because it's the natural process for all of our different possibilities. And then when you start to do this, I find that I'm very conscious of my swallowing. But I think that's the way I swallow in life. The head is extended. The head is extended. And I don't actually notice that it interferes with my swallowing any more than my particular posture already does. I could swallow. So you've suddenly become aware of yourself. You've become aware of everything, your itches, the organs, the effectiveness.

[08:35]

I want to hear the introduction. Appreciate that you introduced yourself, that you brought yourself into this situation. And we are here with somewhat different histories and different abilities, honestly, for us. What I want to talk about today is how to arrive at where we already are.

[09:38]

We began to arrive last night by introducing ourselves. And some of us won't get here for a few days. Some of us may not arrive at this point, but actually we've passed our expectations, our attitudes, our understanding, our goals. And I hope that You don't get anything out of the screen. And at some point, you give up trying to get something you can take back with you. Because I have more things with me that's mine.

[10:45]

It's my understanding. My words will have them talk to me. They come from my teachers. They come from the sutras. They come from 500 years of tradition. You have it all inside of you. Very clear. You have it all inside of you. And anything that I follow, Devenda or Leslie, that resonates with me because you already know that. And that's the way that the journey of Buddha. My teacher, Suzuki Roshi, said that Buddhism is to show us how we, as Buddha, move ourselves and how we, as Buddha, regain ourselves.

[11:46]

And we don't believe we're through that. We think Buddha is outside of us. Some teacher or some special person. My own experience and the experience of most of us who do practicing We have to struggle with our own tenderness and inclination to allow ourselves to arrive, to be open to our experience and to our life. I'd like to start with where we are right now. Just take a moment to feel your body. Don't push it. Feel your balance.

[12:52]

Pressing down on the socket. Feel the pressure of the cushion up against your body. Feel the need. Just feel the sensation, the sensations of your body. Can you feel your breath in your abdomen passing through the nostril? Take a moment to arrive at the breath passing through your breath. Can you feel what's happening with your mind?

[13:55]

Stay in the room. Stay in the room. The awareness of the sound of words. The voices in the courtroom. Feeling of being in this room together. Individual bodies and mind, but what collective body and mind is that?

[15:13]

I'm figuring I should call it the imitation of consciousness. Just before we have an image of our body and mind, the real body and mind is already there. Before we have some idea of who we are, The visual cues, the view of the sky, the view of the moon, the view of the atmosphere, the lines, they are all very good. Remember you said last night, thinking about Zen Buddhism, you've been reading about it for a number of years, and now it was time to try it.

[16:41]

Trying it, jumping in, sitting in the center, opening yourself, opening the body in this posture. You're talking about it to yourself. You're putting your body around it. Buddhism is a more special way. Buddhism is each person finding her own way. When we talk about how to, how three of us might present the retreat, We decided to select one classical of the writing of Durban Tange, who was the Japanese monk who brought this tradition from China to the United States of America.

[17:50]

But this deep teaching throughout the hundred chapters, the teaching of non-duality, it almost doesn't matter which one they select to talk about. It's not here. No separation. Body among one. Practice and enlighten the heart not to think. Don't practice. We don't do this posture. Just practice. to get anything outside of the actual doing of it. It is my personal experience that the actual doing of this period of blessing, with the actual sitting, whatever discomfort you're sitting in, unease or pleasure, and knowing that, knowing what your experience is, that is the awakening.

[18:59]

The title, Vendor Walk, which is the festival we chose, means to practice or to make effort or to negotiate the way. But it doesn't mean to practice or to make effort or to negotiate the way in order to you have to realize as you arrive at the outside of just negotiating the right. So, Ben Do-la, a dozen benji of teaching and understanding, is to completely accomplish the way with each moment. Each moment, we completely realize the practice. We completely use ourselves up. We don't set aside some parts that we're going to take care of later.

[20:09]

We completely re-exert ourselves or exhaust ourselves or meet ourselves in each moment. Each effort is the only moment. I think we bring ourselves, as much as we can, to following the breath, having a conversation, doing the reading, taking a walk, eating, without looking for something new outside the activity. As soon as we, I think we all have the experience of maybe suddenly something in your body comes very alive and aware for you. Like you did the walking meditation, you know, you suddenly feel the abiding, complete, fascinating foot on the ground, foot on the ground.

[21:13]

But as soon as that happens, your mind goes, I've had an experience. But the teaching is really a thing that When the mind goes, I had an experience, that's already not there. That just can't be there. Something in you knew it, but the mind is commenting. And whatever appears in the mind is not the deepest truth. The mind can't reach it. The mind can separate us from it. You know, and it creates discrimination. Separates us from our experience. So we have attitudes, like, I'm uncomfortable to sit here, or it's too hot, or it's too cold. And those prevent us from just feeling whatever is uncomfortable, whatever the discomfort is, whatever the satisfaction is. But the way that

[22:15]

Joshu asked his teacher, what is the way? And his teacher answered, the ordinary mind is the way. Joshu asked, shall I direct myself toward it? And his teacher said, as soon as you direct yourself toward it, you'd already lost it. As soon as any tension arises, the soul, that's why we've already lost the mind. We've already lost the mind. What if I were to tell you that How many years we've been practicing last week, and how hard it was at the beginning to just believe this simple, straightforward approach. Just follow the breath. Let your thoughts come and go. Don't get attached to them.

[23:19]

and become one with your activity, just enter your activity, the weight you use yourself on. It's part of life, but being actually in that deep state of the use of that form of particularity is what was most important. Maybe it's 20 years that I lived, and I've been justified with that kind of particularity, but it does take a little time to collect our ideas. I'd like to personally thank Mary Buston for what they have initiated right here. Thank you. Thank you.

[24:21]

So, in this, I did then, I thought, this classical is quite beautiful, compulsive, and quite incomprehensible. It plays with the language in ways which are astonishing. It gives the language an unexpected way. It reaches for a non-traditional meaning. And again, the language in that is that make their money, then the police and both of them don't help. They push around, push around. They look back to see, the whole idea is to see the premise of the market. And when we retrace this traditional formulation, we'd have a whole new universe. And one example of this is When Shakyamuni Buddha was enlightened under the Bodhi tree, what he said was, I now see that I and all sentient beings together have the Buddha nature.

[25:34]

And for years, that formulation has been there. We all have all sentient beings have the Buddha nature. Dukkha and Sanjeeva reported about that. All sentient beings are a buddha-nature. That's a radically non-dualistic statement. If we say all sentient beings have the buddha-nature, then that's like a potentiality in us, a seed to sprout of something that will eventually awaken. That's why there's us and you in this thing. When we say all sentient beings are the Buddha nature, that's like saying just the way they are. Another way of saying all sentient beings is the totality of the same.

[26:41]

There's nothing in the universe outside of the Buddha nature. Even if Shakyamuni Buddha hadn't had this enlightening experience and taught us this, Buddha nature would already be. Another way of describing Buddha nature is in the process. Buddha nature is not when we're mindful and wise and generous and kind. It's when we're stubborn and stupid and mean thoughtless, ambiguous, and vain, and vain beings are. All that is our blue nature. All that is the way we are. And paying attention to our thoughts and feelings is allowing ourselves to see the fullness of our being, the totality of our being, without which we can fully exist.

[27:53]

As she said, practice is to help us to become complete. And practicing is to become wise or enlightened, to become the completeness that we already are, but maybe have an attitude that we're not. And so we're sitting to let that weakness shine forth by knowing how to develop things in the practice, by developing the original acquaintance and knowledge with all parts of ourselves, which anything about kind, helpful, loving, outreach, self-protected, irritated, uncomfortable, I want to be interested.

[29:01]

It's all, it's all, it's all, it's all a belief, it's all a belief. A practice is to open ourselves, our hearts, our minds, to everything that we suffer. And to learn compassion. acceptance for ourselves, as we are, through which compassion for ourselves, we find compassion for each other. So, in this classical Dogen is saying that one moment of satsang is equally wholeness of practice, wholeness of realization. One moment of satsang is equally wholeness of practice, wholeness of realization.

[30:07]

There's no realization outside that moment. That moment of feeling, following the breath, getting lost, forgetting, getting found, and coming back to the body. That's the emotion. That's the emotion. Knowing that that's it. Knowing that. What we're discovering is the texture of our bodies and minds. And we all know we have some texture that's soft and wielding and open and flexible, and texture that's hard and resistant and closed. And we watch the softness

[31:14]

the interaction, the flexibility, the willingness to go with things, the willingness to go with the sensation of the thighs, the sensation of the knees, the willingness to stay with that, to breathe into it, to know it, not to be afraid of it, to know it, to feel it, to touch it, to be touched by it. And we know the other side of that, the times when we back off and do not what we want to do, when we're afraid of the pain, when we close off, when we're afraid of new experiences, afraid of this person, we're afraid of the cold, afraid of people. And we allow ourselves to experience both yielding, giving, opening, quality of his mind and body.

[32:19]

Closing, holding, drawing. That's who we are. And we're not trying to change any of that. We're trying to be in touch with it. It's hard for most of us who have made a life commitment to sitting without them to not have some expectation that this will help our lives. Maybe I'll get to be calm in a little bit. to either a better person. And when we sit seven days a shame, there is just hope. Little folk that arrive will be this talent and this endeavor that we hope. I get it. The teaching will penetrate.

[33:21]

It will be inside of me, not just something I think about. We renew our vows and our commitments and come to the session even somewhere along the fourth day when we're just in great pain or despair or frustration. Energy just goes boom. I can't get it. I don't get it. Not this time. I'm tired of it. There's some letting go. There's some dropping away of intention, of reaching, of hoping. So you've got to have faith in that. You've got to know what it is that you're really being myself. You've got to know I do that other than just being willing to be with the entire universe, these vacant homes. So many deeds and conjures and confessions that arise in just this.

[34:26]

I can't get out of it. I'm not going to get out of it. I'm not going to get anything out of it. You're just below this. Know this moment in this body with this breath. My experience with yoga is that when I gave up jogging, you get something out of the posture. You get a little more stretch, a little more opening, a little more strength. And just watch with that posture. Not going in, but just knowing that posture. Whatever limitations my muscles have, or often, that is when I could know my life. That's the kind of knowing I like that you're talking about. Settling into just what's happening, not wanting it to be any better.

[35:28]

The stretch isn't coming deeper or longer. This because in breath, is there any calmer or more subtle or deeper benefit? being willing to know this body, being willing to accept this body, saying, it's okay with me to have this body. It has this kind of sciatic problem or this kind of delirium or whatever. That's our liberation. That's our freedom. That's what everybody here is trying to get to. get to the place where they're not trying to get anywhere. The quality of that kind of life is the perfect kind of life. And our special powers, we say, are the willingness to be in whatever arises, in whatever conditions arise.

[36:32]

The special powers of this life. And it seems to come from a culmination of effort We can't stop making this effort. Even though you're hearing these words, half of you may be excluding yourself from it, as I did. For all the years, I feared the future. Not me. That's not my word. I don't believe that. So we exclude ourselves, and we make whatever effort, our own time, our own body and mind energy and habit of achievement. bring forth. We're all making our own, doing our own habit of doing our things. Until one day we've gotten out and we just, I'm not going to get out of it. I'm not going to get it. Hopefully you've got that. Okay, nothing like that. Can't be. You know what? It's going to be weird. So, one way to describe that is, don't know mind.

[37:39]

Would you be willing to add, don't know mind? Perfect. How can I read it? I'm sorry. Are you all with me? Are you away? Anybody here? You're not sure. Where are you? Did not try. Oh, good. Oh, great. I'll skip to the last page. I want to present a poem that's really thin. Could it be until 11.30? 11.30, I think we're set. Maybe. I don't know. [...]

[38:42]

We used to try to not move it. It was low class to move. We ended up, you know, getting so outrageously angry at the speaker and being in such excruciating pain that I never quite got deep teaching at that. So let me encourage you to move so that the rest of us, which I think is interesting, I would like to share my enthusiasm for this with you so that if you don't get much of anything else, you'll get my enthusiasm. The reason I have to write everything, I don't know when a lesbian has to. I have to write things down. I think that I write. I start out thinking I should write it. So when I come up here, I don't generate creative ideas. When I see all of you, I think, really? So I try not to hold on it. And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. And see, the problem is that I have this text, right? And I thought, really, that maybe it was organized with that one piece, right?

[40:00]

And I keep thinking, is that what I'm doing? So that's an example of what not to do. Because it's like there's something outside. What's happening here? It ought to be helpful. Something, some deep message I thought to bring, you know? we need helping to engage our thought processes, as we are continuously thinking. So we need to work with that part of ourselves to kind of blast through it. And these kumans and these stories and these verbal teachings help us blast through the conditioning, the set, the mindset setting. So, here goes. A monk asked the great teacher, What are you thinking of in the steady, immobile state of sitting? The teacher replied, I think of not thinking. The monk asked, how do you think of not thinking?

[41:05]

The master replied, by non-thinking. So here's the story. Mug comes up to the teacher and says, what are you thinking about as you're doing this steady, immobile sitting? The teacher replied, I think of not thinking. Now Mug asks, how can one think of not thinking? Teacher. by non-thinking. So the reason this is interesting to me, and I hope to you, is that we have some idea that really advanced enthusiasm is mindless, where there's no thought. We've read stories about states of concentration and bliss and

[42:10]

other states of mind, that if you're really doing it deeply and well, and in a deep yogic state, that's the real stuff. And if you're sitting here with a thinking mind, with thoughts arising, with discomfort and complaining mind, or blissed out, happy, splendid, unjoyful mind, You think that maybe that isn't it. You don't know what it is. But 20 years later, the mind is still going. The mind is still going. So the teaching in this poem is what are you thinking of in disaster? The question isn't what are you doing? It's what are you thinking? So this koan acknowledges that thinking is what's going on in zazen.

[43:14]

Thinking is what's going on in zazen. But the answer is, I think of not thinking. I think of the unthinking, or I think of that which doesn't think. But that's the same instruction as saying, let the thoughts come and go. Don't get caught in them. Don't identify with them. Don't get attached to them. Let the thought come and go. They're not you. If that irritated mind isn't you, let it go. What arises in consciousness is a view. It may be your habit energy, your conditioning, it's your response, but it's not the deeper view.

[44:21]

It's not big mind, not your fuller nature. How can one... Well, it is your Buddha nature and it's not. It's your Buddha nature looked at from one side. It's your process. It's your Buddha nature looked at from the side of form. It's not the Buddha nature looked at from the side of emptiness. So we have these two sides, like prisons or something, that you look at reality from both sides and you see it a little differently. So what we're talking about is seeing a little bit, changing that perspective. How can one think of not thinking by not thinking?

[45:23]

And later he says, not thinking is how's thinking. Does everybody tell me? Do it. So for me, what this means is that thinking is simultaneously not thinking. Thoughts are simultaneously no thoughts. And they are simultaneously what we say non-thoughts, of non-thinking, which is the relationship between thinking and that which doesn't work, between thinking and not thinking, thinking and the unthinking, between form and emotion.

[46:29]

particularity and the absolute. That's the dilemma of this human existence, that we exist in both ways. We know ourselves as particularity, as particular beings, but we know ourselves more deeply also. In a way, we can't identify with what we sense, something that cannot be expressed, that we speak of as our true nature, our deeper nature, which is our nature, that part of us that's connected with everything, that's not holding out to be Catherine, identified as Catherine, but that interacts with and flows with everything, knows herself only as part of everything, So when I look at myself as this particular individual with this set of thoughts and this particular limited body and this limited mind that needs to write everything down, as soon as I start to examine and study that, I see that I'm a part of it.

[47:57]

And if that's the air, I can't breathe and breathe without the soil, the earth, the microorganisms in the soil. I can't be fed and nourished without the water and all the organisms that are in the water, without the sun, without plant life, the trees, the rocks. Without our whole complicated society and culture, without all the structures we had, we could have made this moment possible. Our educational structure, social structure, the institutions of marriage and school, and business, industry, technology, everything that's great made possible. world, the social, physical world we live in, I don't exist.

[49:01]

So when we say empty, we mean empty of separate existence. that each one of us, and as I'm speaking and seeing your attitudes and your place and your body and your expression, I feel it and change and interact with it. And we do that all the time. We interact continuously, affect each other, become, and become told of us and turn each other So when we say we're empty, we mean we don't exist separate from everything, the entire universe. We have no inherent separate existence. So that's the side of us that we call the empty side or the absolute side. True nature. We also exist as a particularly limited body of mind.

[50:04]

But as soon as you study that particular limited body of mind, you slide through that door and into this entire universe. As soon as I study this particular thought or attitude, I go into all the leading I've done, all the teachers I've heard, all the conversations I've had, all the feelings, the questions, the search for my own experience, and I'm back into it. So when we know ourselves in that deeper sense, when we see through our particular experience into its universal nature, non-particulate aspect, not identified with any particular thought, any particular feeling. This teaching has been passed on to me, and out of my deep gratitude and humility, I hope, I will pass it on to the next generation to have it.

[51:12]

This is all, and my teacher felt that way, and this teacher felt that way, and this is just like hand to hand going down through the generations. So, maybe we can talk a little bit more about that con, if we have time to talk about that. The basic teaching is that there's no secret teaching. There's no secrets. The secret is in each one of you. I hope together this week, I have no hopes, right? Maybe this week we can find that secret teaching of ours. You know, there should be time for some questions. I'm sorry, but if there is more time, I'll be back. Did somebody have some observations? I don't even need anything.

[52:22]

Sometimes when I sit, I go walk, and almost it's all already pushed the performance to its dream. It's not going to be for a discussion. We've had some about something that happened in the past. And I wake up from that. And I don't even know that I've found the one. And all of a sudden, through the effort of waking up, I don't know who wakes me up. Sometimes it seems like there's a multiple question who wakes you up. I don't know. You sitting here, I've just gotten very confused.

[53:28]

Just keep that question. We say something like this out loud, without intention. But we don't mean small-minded attention, put some deeper intention in the body. And I'll tell you, that was a real breakthrough for me when I realized something in me wanted to do this, regardless of how stupid I thought I was. Something in me kept coming back. Something in me wanted to lift up.

[54:28]

I had a question about a relationship with Fox when I was younger, that day. But listen, I was with this cute, pretty stuff box that had value. A box that, uh, looked like something that was probably built by hardware, not with the box that wanted it to. Just a question. What's not valuable for? So you've noticed that the thoughts that got you here seem to be more valuable than the thoughts that made... the thoughts that someday take you to the beach?

[55:46]

Well, I... Having been there, I've had enough judging and thoughts for using it to know my own, which ones... You know, all of the thoughts are there. We aren't going to change those thoughts of wanting to have a class at the theater, of wanting to be in a movie, of wanting to be making love, well-receiving thoughts, and that stuff just keeps coming. Oh, that's all. There's no other way. There's certain ones you might act on and follow every day. because they are coming from some deeper points. The mind, somebody said the mind is a gland that just secretes thoughts. So that's just what's going to happen. Everything's going to come up because we're connected to the universe. Our deepest unconscious, we call it in Buddhism, alaya-vijnana, is everything.

[56:51]

all the structures, intellectual structures of our concepts, of our culture. So some people didn't have really far out things going on. So that stuff's just going to come up. So I'm not sure I understand the question. The point is not to judge it. If you are violent toward yourself by trying to keep something up, That has its own repercussion. But being soft and generous and letting it come through, no repercussion. You don't just ask. You know yourself what you're going to do. The deep potential. And if you happen to go to the beach and get drunk for a day or two, you needed to do that to find out that that maybe wasn't what you wanted to keep doing. So it's not like we prohibit certain kinds of activity in this tradition. The path of perspective.

[57:56]

I have lots of questions, but we always trick the intellect. That's a good relationship with the intellect. Yes? Everybody's always thinking and we're always not thinking. And what's the big deal? That's it. And to realize it, to realize that with each thought, with each feeling, with each feeling and thought, it's the practice.

[59:06]

It's the really natural way of being God. We have to use our mind and body to understand that whatever arises has no inherent nature. And sometimes we use our mind by studying that particular thought, by repeating that thought, obsessing with that thought, penetrating, being occupied by that thought and whole body of thought. living that thought, until somewhere in it, something drops through. And we see that that thought isn't real, isn't the way the universe is. That's just what one thought . And the universe in reality is free of that limitation of that thought . That's what I was talking about. But we use our thinking mind and our thoughts to do that work of seeing the emptiness and the shortcomings of the mind.

[60:23]

We use the mind. That's a tool we have to penetrate our thoughts. We can't set them aside. That's what we do with our thinking mind. We learn that, and we learn... If that's the work of that moment, if we simultaneously realize that that activity is empty, all that work is empty. But to realize that, to hold it and let it go simultaneously, seems paradoxical and contradictory. and we struggle with both sides of this until we're willing to hold paradox and enter it into it. This thinking, if it's also not thinking, if it's also emptiness, if it's also everything, this particular thought doesn't limit me, doesn't catch me, doesn't prevent me from the next event that arises.

[61:32]

But sometimes we do think. Sometimes we do think. We have to be the same. Push thoughts to their logical conclusion to see that that's not it. And sometimes thinking is very useful for us. So we don't rule out. If you have a problem, you solve it. Pay the rent, you figure out how much you have to work in order to meet the bills and buy the clothing, get the money to come on a vacation. But to hold in mind, that all of this is at a certain level of activity simultaneously. See, it doesn't mean there's no activity. It just means the activity is an absolute reality. To say I'm empty is to say that I'm full of everything. Fullness is another way of talking about it. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[62:34]

It's another way of seeing it. It doesn't buy it as something else. So that I don't happen, doesn't get stuck in something else. She's a separate entity. And we see our connection, our interrelationship with everything. We're open. We're compassionate. We're present. There's relationship, interpenetration, interdependency is what's really happening, and not self-directed, self-motivated. These are real words. We can talk some more about that. I think maybe we should stop now and People like to take a 5-minute or 10-minute break and meet again on the other side of the plane, and then we'll be walking.

[63:37]

But in the meantime, excuse me, Eleanor.

[63:44]

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