Following is the discussion held on May 17th We can begin with any questions you may have. I have a question, I'm curious what you would have to say about energy and how, energy like my energy, I have a trouble with energy, I think I'm going to be able to do, when I start the day, sometimes I have an idea of what I'm going to be able to do with the day, like I'm going to do this project and this project and this project and some days I can do them and some days I just, I know I can't do it, I can't do them, like I fall asleep in the

[01:13]

middle of the day or something, and I can't, I can't understand how I can keep, you know, every day be able to do what I want to do. Did you feel the lacking of energy, and you feel, somehow you feel sleepy in the middle of the day, in that case you feel you don't have enough energy to stay awake, to stay awake. So, you feel exhausted. Yeah, I thought, I thought the reason was, I used to think the reason was because I thought about things that happened earlier in the day, like I would, I would think about things that I, some kind of relationship I had with somebody and how it had gone and replaying it through my

[02:17]

mind and that was taking my energy away, but now my energy, I have the same problem with energy, but I don't do that so much, that I can't find an excuse for it. This kind of, um, um, energy does not flow properly, so we can, the obstruction, obstruction of energy, which makes you feel exhausted, tired, you know. Yes, energy is very essential, that's why Buddha takes energy as one of the factors, one of the factors for enlightenment. As we have read about it in the Divatana Sutta, there are seven factors for enlightenment.

[03:25]

And the first is a mindfulness of mindful awareness, and the second is energy, the third is joy, and the fourth is tranquility. The fifth is, um, oh, we missed the second one, the second one, you know, of this can put them in order, better, and the next one is the investigation into truth or inquiring into truth, and the next is the concentration, the inner stability, and the last one is the equanimity.

[04:41]

So, these seven factors are essential for achieving enlightenment. They have to be fully developed. So, in the Divatana Sutta, we are instructed to be aware of each, of all these seven factors, whether they are fully developed, which one is developed, which one is not yet developed, so then you can develop them. And energy plays an active part, not only in these seven factors of enlightenment, but also in the five spiritual factors, five spiritual controlling factors, and in that category, energy has to be equally developed with concentration.

[05:48]

If you have too much energy and you lack concentration, you lack inner stability, and then you become restless, you become restless, you think, or you worry, or you become anxious, and, but if, if you have little energy, but you have strong concentration, concentration, in that case you feel sleepy, you feel exhausted. There is, there must be the balance between concentration and energy, but they can go high together too. Sometimes you have very high energy and a very strong concentration, in the sense of having a complete inner stability without being

[06:57]

distracted or disturbed by things outside or inside. In that case, you might feel like floating, floating up the air. Particularly when you are in that state and you sit in meditation, as I said, you feel like floating up. So then we have to check the equality of energy and concentration. And another, another factor, energy becomes power. Also, energy becomes factor for enlightenment, energy becomes power, creative power, and energy becomes

[08:01]

controlling faculty. And also, energy can become a factor for preventing things, unwholesome states of mind from arising and for removing the unwholesome states of mind for developing and fulfilling all the noble qualities. And energy is really essential in all aspects of training or meditating. So now we see how can we have energy or what can we do with energy if it is too much. We're talking about lacking of energy first. So when you feel you don't have much energy,

[09:13]

perhaps you have to see to the body and mind to see, to check whether your body has some tension, there's some blockage of the flow of energy in the body. In that case, you have to relax the body in order to let energy flow. You know, the body becomes a very essential channel for the flow of energy. And if the body is blocked by having stiffness or tension in some area, particularly if the area in the back and the shoulders and the neck, this area seems to block the flow of energy easily. Or sometimes, perhaps when we sit too much, this lower part of our legs, the legs become stiff and tense so that energy cannot flow

[10:24]

smoothly and you can feel tired, exhausted too. So you have to do some exercises. That's why the Buddha mentioned it too in Stipitanas that when you stretch your legs, do it mindfully. Or when you look around, you look sideways or look backward or forward, do it mindfully. So in that case, it's some kind of exercise for helping the body to be flexible, to be a very good channel for the flow of energy to release tension and stiffness. And for the mind, surely that we have to be very careful that the mind can create a negative attitude towards your life, towards your work, towards yourself,

[11:27]

or towards your relationship with your environment, with what you do. So if we can check this negative attitude, if you don't have any negative attitude, then the mind can become a good channel for the energy to flow. And in another case, perhaps you might expend energy on thinking negatively or being emotional. So in that case too, your energy becomes dissipated. Or sometimes you spend too much energy on trying to remove, to overcome some problems in your mind.

[12:29]

And when you use too much energy in doing that, you become distracted. So energy is not flowing smoothly and it can make you feel tired. And I think the very great influence comes from inside, from our inner conditions, from the mental attitude. The external conditions are not so powerful really. They become the problems, they become the factors for obstructing this. But if the mind is clear, if mind is all right, completely all right, healthy, then you'll gain energy easily. You can help the body to flow and get rid of tension or stiffness. So you have to see when you feel very exhausted

[13:35]

and very sleepy, instead of conforming to the demand that you should sleep, you will say you have to look and see whether you need sleep, you really need, or because of some unconscious mental attitude operating inside. So in that case, you have to apply your awareness to the situation of sleepiness. And it is a situation now to see what is the real cause of this. It is the physical condition or it is the mental condition. So you look at it, pay more and more attention to it. And by doing that, perhaps you gain energy gradually and you have more energy.

[14:42]

And you may not like to sleep. You would like to be active, to do some work. That moment, in that moment, it means that satsang is really needed. So you have to use it, practice it immediately. Does it answer your question? You can try, you know, try and see. And energy becomes a creative power, when we say energy also becomes a power, say, for us to move creatively. And when you are creative, it does not mean that you want to

[15:46]

to build things or to do material work, but you feel good, you feel good. And you are creative when you feel good. When you feel bad, you mean you are not creative, you are negative. And feeling good is kind of the feeling of living, having a sense of life, flowing, flowing with life. So then you are creative. You are happy without clinging to happiness. Yes.

[16:49]

Development of joy. Yes, joy is one of the factors for enlightenment. I don't know whether I mentioned it to you one day. What I used to say, feed yourself on joy. Really, when we have joy, we overcome the negativity within us. You won't have any negative state in your mind when you are joyful. And the very powerful joy in meditation is when you enter the third stage of jhana, which we will talk about more. And that joy is very powerful. But you don't become unbalanced, or you are not overwhelmed by that joy.

[18:00]

There is a balance, but you really feel it. Happy will say the meaning of joy. Joy is the feeling, the feeling of bliss, the feeling of happiness, the true happiness, which is arising at the moment of being in contact with reality. We are being in touch with something real. So you have joy, which is different from satisfaction. Satisfaction is only the feeling of being pleased with the object,

[19:01]

with some success in obtaining the object. Or we can say it in this way that when you are traveling in the desert, you may feel very thirsty, and you may feel that it's so vast and you don't find any place to sit down, you will feel a bit tired physically. And then suddenly you see an oasis, an oasis in a far distance. At the moment you see that, you feel pleased. And that is satisfaction, kind of pressure. But when you get there and sit down, relax, you have joy.

[20:10]

The feeling of happiness, feeling of bliss, when you are really there, so that if we live fully in the present, living with reality, joy is always there. Now, first of all, in this process of developing joy, we have to see that what is the obstacle for not having joy. If we don't feel joyful, if we see whether we are living in the present with what we do, or what we are in contact with, or we are living with the thoughts, we are living in fantasies, we are living in

[21:15]

dreams, daydreaming, or we are living with ideas, ideals, so that we don't really feel joyful. We may feel a bit far away from reality. But if you check, observe yourself, and see the obstacle, the hindrance to having joy. How do you feel about ascetic practices for people who are training? Ascetic practices. The real meaning of asceticism is simplicity, so that the way of training to be an ascetic is to be simple.

[22:20]

Both inwardly and outwardly. To be simple inwardly is rather difficult. Even outwardly, we don't find it so difficult to be simple. To have a few clothes, to eat simple food, to sleep in a simple place, we don't find it very hard. But it may be a bit hard to begin with for some people. But the inward simplicity is most important and most difficult. So that it is not to be complicated in thinking, perceiving, acting, and feeling.

[23:26]

So that if the mind can become very simple in this way of thinking, perceiving, and responding to things, then you feel very joyful, you feel contented. So that we have to look into the matter of mind, whether we have any complicated way of doing things, or we are very simple, that we don't look for the techniques, the methods to help us to fulfill the aim or the goal. But we just do this simple thing by just looking, inquiring, watching, observing,

[24:42]

with simple clear awareness, not with the muddled awareness. Sometimes awareness becomes muddled. And the muddled awareness refers to complications in the mind. Like you may put a question, who is being aware? Or sometimes you say, I am aware of myself being aware. And then you say, oh, what is part of myself being aware of? It's of another part of myself. But then you may have more confusion. And then awareness becomes muddled, muddled awareness. It can create some problem and fear. As Buddha mentioned it, the muddled awareness can become the condition of fear.

[25:51]

So, awareness itself must be very simple and non-interfering process of looking, observing, watching, seeing. When the inward quality or inwardness is simple, it is very easy for us to be simple outside. And we are really simple without conforming to the rule. The rule is there. The rule can be practiced without being conscious of the rule. Like when you don't smoke, and you don't need to have the rule for not smoking. But you just not smoke. You feel okay. You don't feel being forced or compelled not to smoke. And because inside you, you are simple with that thing, that you don't have any complicated mind.

[26:53]

Then you become ascetic. We don't deny that the external rules are not useful. They are useful when we cannot be simple easily. Then we have the rules. We lay down the rules for helping us to be simple. But we should be aware or should be aware that by conforming to the rules only, without taking care of the inner qualities, we may suppress something in our mind. It may become like a rock lying on the grass.

[27:58]

As long as the rock is there, the grass cannot grow. But as soon as you remove the rock, then the grass can grow. This is kind of practicing the rule without looking into the inner conditions, without uprooting the disturbances, the conditions of complicating. So when we take the rule as a helping factor, and then work on ourselves more and more, and then the rules will not become the problem for behavior.

[28:59]

You may not think of the rule, but you are completely in the way, and the rule is completely observed without being conscious of it. That's why it is also essential in this way of practice to surrender ourselves to the rule, to give yourself fully to it, so that you won't have conflict in practicing the rule, observing the rule. Like obeying the law. If we obey the law completely, it means we surrender ourselves to it. And then we don't have problem of obeying the law. But if we don't surrender, we have resistance.

[30:04]

It means the resistance of the ego. The ego is defending itself, not wanting to do, but still some part of you want to do it. Then there's conflict between ego defense and the good part of life. But surrender will help to overcome this conflict. You say, okay, I give myself to it. And anytime there is kind of resistance coming up, so if you have awareness, be aware of it. Look at it, keep watchful eye on it, and then it will be okay. So long as you keep watchful eye on the disturbing things, they will not come to interfere.

[31:09]

They will appear on the surface, but will not take root in the mind. What does it mean to inquire? To inquire is to look into something beyond the appearance. So that's why we have to be simple. So when you ask a question, how can you do it? It means that your mind is not simple.

[32:11]

When you are simple and look, suppose you have the problem of getting stuck in meditation. You don't seem to get anywhere, or in a way that you don't seem to make any progress, put it in the common language. So now you have to inquire. So what is the obstacle to making progress? What is the obstacle to the progress?

[33:15]

Why do you get stuck? So you put a question to yourself and look at the problem which is in front of you, the problem of getting stuck, the problem of not making progress. So then this inquiring has to be done with a silent mind, not to be done with a noisy mind. Not creating many concepts or looking for the result. So the mind has to be free after putting the question to yourself. And then you have to look more attentively, more deeply at what is there. So that is inquiring we use.

[34:21]

Sometimes when you get angry and you are not clear why you get angry, what is in your mind, so inquire into it. You are questioning yourself and looking into what is not clear. What is the problem or what is difficulty? So then by making inquiry you put up your energy. And energy will flow into looking and watching. So that you can keep your watchful eye. Watchful eye is watchfulness. We just use the figurative term. You don't need to use your naked eyes. You put your eye of the mind, the eye of awareness, the eye of watchfulness.

[35:26]

And you are watchful of what is going on. So that helps you to move on, to go further. If there is anything further. The other day we were talking about reality. And I asked you, pointing to the rose on the table, how should one look at that rose and its ultimate reality? And like a Zen master, you asked me the question. And so I answered in terms of sense perception. Well, now reading your book, Inside Meditation, and one of the memos of Buddhism we have in the library, I realized that we should look at reality, an object, first of all, with its bare attention,

[36:28]

to look at its, not to make subjective judgments on it, one should, in other words, look at a rose as a beautiful flower with fragrance, with graceful form. But one should look at it as, what, a vegetable or with four leaves and various convulsions of its shape. To me, a rose is a rose. It smells as sweet by any other name. So, why not look at, I mean, what is the reality of a rose, other than its sense perceptions that we have? What's the reality of the lamp? Ah, it's the light. Again, a visual response to the reality of it.

[37:38]

So, I mean, your reality does not refer to the shape of the lamp? But the essence of that lamp is its light. It's not... And so take reality as essence, right? Yes, in that sense, yes. That's a brief version of it. The essence, yes, the essence seems to be a kind of a judgment again. You judge the lamp as something which gives you light. So, that is maybe subjective judgment because you need light. And you say, this is essence because it is helpful to me and to other people too.

[38:43]

Substance. Is reality connected with essence or it is just reality which has no value apart from our judgment, our variation of the things? We perceive the things we have. Or is reality something objective? Whether you perceive it or not, it is.

[39:52]

And we, as we talk, yes, we talk about coming into contact with reality. Is there anybody, any being or any entity that judges this is reality and in contact with reality? Is reality relative or absolute or both? Or neither? Perhaps at the end, we see what is not real. And then we may be able to see what is real.

[41:03]

What is not reality. It's difficult for me to follow that through. I'm more like Hobbes, the English philosopher, was confronted with the proposition that the brick that he was examining was not reality, it was a mere illusion. And he struck him with his fist and said, I refute it thus. One has to know what illusion is. Otherwise, there is no seeing of reality. You will take the shape of the lamp as illusion, and you take light as reality.

[42:15]

Is that right? In your mind? Yes, I think so. In that case, it means reality is living, existing within unreality. So we have to go into that in life, see what is reality and what is unreality. Without conforming to any concept or any conclusion from any philosophers or any mystics. Let the reality reveal itself to you and see what it is.

[43:23]

You may come to understanding reality by looking, questioning. Well, after making your acknowledgement of the reality of the object, can not one then pass on to this clear comprehension and make a subjective value judgment on it? Surely, when one... And then it's light. Surely, when one sees reality, there is no need to make any judgment. When you see what is, you don't need to judge it. Because seeing this complete process, complete work, is not unfinished work.

[44:36]

So when we have judgment, it means we still have a kind of unfinished work. We have to judge it. We have to take decision. In order to judge, we have to compare. Otherwise, you cannot judge. You can say you judge the person, it means you have to compare that person to the other person. Otherwise, there is no judgment. When you judge the light, you compare it with the shape. The shape is not very central. But it is central too. Without shape, perhaps light does not come to be. They are interdependent. And there must be a channel for the light to appear.

[45:43]

So you will say light is very important. But also the shape of it is very important. The man taking care of the dustbins is as important as the man who is the Prime Minister of a country. In his work. Not in the position, in the status, in the matter of work. And indeed, there is no comparison. There is no comparison. So we have to have this as a homework. Looking into reality. What it is. It is hardly homework.

[46:51]

It is the whole Buddhist way, isn't it? Not only Buddhist way. It is for everyone to see. It does not mean that all Buddhists have to see reality in one way. And Christians will see reality in another way. But perhaps Bill may put different concepts on reality. Bill may explain reality according to their traditions. But it does not mean that reality is different. But the concepts, the words are different. If one really sees reality. And surely reality is in the moment.

[48:06]

It is not because someone keep it and then handed it over to you. Maybe someone who saw reality may find out a way, the means to get into it. But the matter of seeing is yours. But the target is quite out of the way. So the way is there. Put it into practice and see whether reality will be seen. Thank you.

[49:09]

What do you think is the main problem as a teacher? Main problem as a teacher? I don't know whether teachers have any problems. It depends. If the teacher would have image as being a teacher he might have the problem of making himself known to the others. The problem of being well received by the people, by disciples. But if a teacher has not any image

[50:22]

as a teacher as from being human being perhaps he does not have any problem. So it depends. This morning we were talking about concentration and you really turned my head around and said that concentration was limited and not necessary the development of awareness and mindfulness. I tried to think about it afterwards and I got very confused about

[51:24]

each school Buddhism emphasizes some aspect more than other aspects. I tried to look at why does somebody get into what kind of way rather than another kind of way. First it seems to me you choose by your strength and then it seems to me you choose by your lack and then it seems to me you didn't choose at all. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about it. We take concentration as the meaning of

[52:28]

Samadhi the real term the Buddha used but the English word concentration is really limited limited thing it is the fixation and exclusion so that one try to shut out all distracting things and want to be fixed with one object so that meaning of concentration is similar

[53:30]

to the word in Pali the one pointedness which is the beginning of Samadhi is not the Samadhi yet the one pointedness is just beginning then the Samadhi really means the undistracted state of mind or the Samadhi

[53:58]

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