Good morning. After these last three days when I thought we'd been transported to some other world, it practically never gets up into the 90s here. Here we are with wonderful drippy fog illuminating all the spider webs. This one spider that's got a web going here in the corner, that web's been there for months. And every time somebody runs into it and there gets to be a hole, she just, you know, puts in another tether. It's the height of actively working with impermanence. What I'd like to talk about this morning is actually something I've been talking about for a little while, coming out of a variety of factors.

[01:09]

As some of you know, I'm doing a class over in Berkeley on the precepts. And there are repeatedly questions that have been arising for people in that group working with the precepts. I've talked about the ground of generosity for working with ethics or virtue. And the particular aspect of kindness. So the questions that have been coming up quite a bit have had to do with how to cultivate a capacity for kindness and generosity if one has grown up without any experience of generosity and kindness.

[02:15]

What I want to talk about this morning is the relationship between the cultivation of generosity, the development of our capacity for kindness, and out of those qualities, the cultivation of our capacity to trust ourselves. to uncover our ability to be trustworthy, which of course depends upon our willingness to notice when we act in a way that isn't so trustworthy. And what I'm really kind of aiming toward is the cultivation of confidence. This past week, I spent a day with Hirata Roshi, and some of you were also here for a talk by Tenzin Pamo, who as one of you said, apart from what she had to say, which was extraordinarily clear, there is the experience of being with her

[03:47]

to have some sense about what the cultivation of presence, and I would say confidence, looks and feels like. Nothing wimpy about either one of them. Let me explore a little bit the territory that may be problematic and make some suggestions, if I may. Particularly when we begin to take on the articulation of the precepts as a description of what someone who's fully awake, what their life looks like, what their actions look like. When we begin to explore the precepts as a way of training our own mind, we have to be in for some what we might call bad news for a while.

[05:07]

That is, we need to cultivate our capacity to see the untrained mind, to see our reactive patterns, to see all the myriad of ways in which we keep recreating suffering for ourselves and others by doing what is familiar, individual, and unexamined. So often what happens when people begin to slow down enough or take on as a possibility studying the mind as it is, what arises is the reaction of, I'm appalled. I hate this. I hate this about myself. Or more dangerously, I hate myself because of what I see. The consequence of

[06:16]

solidifying and identifying with patterns, with reactivity. The difference between saying, I am angry, the language of identifying and solidifying. I'm identifying myself as angry. Quite different from observing, oh, anger is arising in this moment. That degree of attention to how we observe and describe can make, in my experience, significant difference in our ability to keep showing up for whatever is showing at our movie. this week or today or on this inhalation or exhalation.

[07:21]

And what seems to happen rather consistently when people begin to work the practice path of the precepts is an experientially based understanding that, I can't do this. I can't bring myself to paying attention to what I actually say and do and the consequences of those actions unless I can do it standing on the ground of generosity and kindliness. The more we can study the mind in the way that I'm suggesting, with some sense of spaciousness, the more likely that we will be able to begin to cultivate our capacity, our willingness to see what's actually so.

[08:28]

pointing out reference for me for almost 20 years now. Since the first time I received the Shantideva teachings, particularly the one in which he says, Consider one's so-called obstacles and enemies as one's teacher. because it is in that moment of feeling on the receiving end of obstacle or enemy that we get to see our own mind stream. A friend of mine was scheduled to do a lecture down in Southern California last Tuesday, which originally I was going to give, except he changed the date.

[09:42]

So because of a conflict for me, he ended up doing the lecture. So he said, well, could you tell me what to say? Could you send me your lecture and I'll give it? And I was pretty busy last week, so on Friday I got this desperate email saying, quick, Send me your lecture. I'm waiting. Anyway, one of the stories I sent to him is a story about Geshe Wangyal, a Mongolian Lama who came to the United States about the same time that Suzuki Roshi did. He settled in New Jersey. And as Suzuki Roshi did, he stayed put and let people come to him. And he ended up being a teacher whose teaching and influence has penetrated Buddhism here in the United States quite significantly.

[10:55]

Most of his, most if not, well, most of his really serious long-term students have ended up being translators and people who are teaching Tibetan Buddhism very much with Geshe Wangyal's voice and training. He liked to knit. It was like this image of this very eccentric, slightly funky Mongolian llama knitting. I think it was camouflage myself. But he also used to, particularly with his more senior students, he would rather regularly accuse them of doing something he knew they couldn't possibly have done. Betty always loves it when I tell this story.

[12:02]

But of course, what he was doing was creating the situation in which the practitioners that he was working with could see whatever shreds of aversion and self-cleaning, clinging, and defensiveness was still there in the mind. I think a very clear example of what Shani Deva is pointing out, that whatever we experience as attack or, what do you mean? What we get to see is that reaction. What do you mean? So to study our mind stream, without any editing is much tougher than meets the eye.

[13:13]

And a lot of people get quite discouraged. So last week we were working with the precept about not intentionally harming or killing How can I cultivate some kindliness with the conditioned patterning in my mind stream that I notice with kindness? I would say in the last week, this question has come up maybe more than a dozen times with different people. How can I possibly have some kindliness in my mind stream when what I see I feel terrible about?

[14:16]

Well, this is where the suggestion in Buddhist tradition about being with whatever arises with the tenderness of a mother with her only newborn child can be quite helpful. Some of you know the meditation that I sometimes teach for working with strong negative emotions where you actually make this gesture of gently cupping the hands at the heart chakra and actually holding the emotion and accompanying sensations. an inhalation or an exhalation, however long is possible without forcing. And what I'm suggesting about how to be kindly when we stumble onto some aspect of our own mindstream, some sense of the consequences of not having had substantial experience

[15:31]

of being treated with tenderness and kindliness is that we can hold that aspect of ourselves, of the mind, with that gentleness in the hands briefly. We don't need to start out with, I have to do this for an hour or a day or a week. a breath or two, especially if I'm willing to do that a few times a day, five or six times a day is a great starting point, starting points, but brief. So the very willingness to hold with tenderness what I don't want to see, what I feel ashamed about or discouraged about or I'll always be this way.

[16:32]

Someone I was meeting with yesterday kept talking about, I'll always be the way I am. Up until now, I have had this tendency to fill in the blank. Leaves a little door open. You mean I could be practicing tenderness and kindness not even for a whole breath, and that might be useful, that might be good enough. My experience is that that's the way to begin this capacity to hold with kindliness whatever arises, no matter how chagrined or ashamed or critical or discouraged we are. And I would propose that when we begin to develop an increasingly less and less reactive capacity to be with what is difficult to be with, we can actually begin to train the mind stream for more wholesome qualities.

[18:07]

And those habitual grooves begin to not be re-grooved. And we actually discover out of that process our capacity to be a little bit more confident about trusting ourselves. Now that may seem like a kind of paradox to you. Oh, you mean if I notice some habit about lying my willingness to notice after the fact and then slowly closer to the moment and closer to the moment of motivation to lie, I can become more confident about developing my capacity to not lie. That's exactly what I'm proposing. The people who get into trouble, in my experience, are not the people who say, oh, I would never do that, but rather are the people who understand their own capacity for corruption.

[19:32]

If I understand that if the causes and conditions are such that some negative behavior is likely to arise. I'm much more likely to be able to put some safeguards in place in service of acting in the ways that I'm choosing to act. Anytime I say, oh, I would never do that, for me, that's a kind of red oil light. for the arising of self-deception. And as I train the mind and begin to see, maybe not so quickly, but in 10 or 15 or

[20:42]

20 years, some fruit, some evidence of the consequences of this path, I begin to have more and more confidence in my ability to train the mind. And no one can do that for me. I'm the only one who can train this mind stream. I think that cultivating confidence in the context of spiritual practice is crucial. So my strong advice to each of you is don't ever tell yourself that you're going to do something in the spiritual realm that you are not completely committed to doing.

[21:58]

Please don't say to yourselves, I'm going to get up at five in the morning and meditate for an hour. Don't begin that way. Figure out what is the daily minimum requirement. One of my husbands once had a restaurant called The Daily Minimum Requirement. Every time I say minimum requirement, It wasn't a place sponsoring the Dharma, except inadvertently, I think. Had to keep a baseball bat behind the counter for the particularly obstreperous.

[23:04]

Figure out for yourself what is the minimum daily requirement in terms of whatever practice or practices you're doing. And then, no matter what, do that, that bit. I will practice a breath-oriented meditation every day for at least five minutes. If I can't do that, I'm kidding myself about what it is I want to do. And it's very important to find out, do I really want to develop a meditation practice, for example? or do I want to take on a practice working with the precepts and how would I do that?

[24:19]

What would be my minimum daily requirement with the precept about not taking what is not given, for example? This is where It really makes a difference to use our imagination and creativity to help ourselves remember what it is we have said to ourselves we want to do. But I can't say strongly enough how crucial it is to not tell myself I'm going to do something that I then don't do. seed for discouragement and the destruction of whatever capacity I may have for confidence. One of the positive aspects for me in spending some time with Tenzin Pamo is that

[25:35]

She is someone who, from the time she was quite young, has had confidence in herself as a practitioner. And I can see from the stories I've heard her tell about her relationship with her mother and her early childhood that a lot of that confidence arose for her from having been on the receiving end of real love and care. And at a certain point in her life she became quite clear about her own spiritual life. And out of this quality of confidence in herself, in her ability to really go for what she wanted to go for, arose her capacity to be consistent and determined.

[26:51]

I want to read, for those of you who are in the precepts class, bear with me, I want to read this quote from the Buddha, which I think, for me anyway, is a great pointing out about where I want to put my attention. And this is the quote. manifests as the deed. Excuse me, the thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit, and habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. and let it spring from love born out of concern for all beings.

[28:12]

That line, watch the thought and its ways with care, I think is very important to pay attention to, with care. Not with a fly swatter ready to go whack, with care. I don't think we can talk ourselves into confidence. I think confidence is more like a kind of blooming that arises as a consequence of developing my ability for being accountable for what I say I'm going to do to myself and to others, for being clear about

[29:32]

what I can do, how often I can practice, so that I have a very clear sense of a thread that I tend continuously, like that spider web out there. That spider web is fragile and strong. A couple of times I've walked into one of the kind of tie strands of a spider web and been surprised at how elastic it is. If I stop when I first feel it and back up, it doesn't break. So what I'm suggesting is the cultivation of this thread that has that capacity of being flexible and delicate, but strong.

[30:38]

One time when Chojyol Rinpoche was visiting, he's a Lama associated with the same community that Tenzin Pamo has been part of for virtually all of her Buddhist life. One time when Chojyol Rinpoche was here, we had a conversation about taking vows, in particular vows of celibacy. He said, I realized, I discovered pretty early on that, particularly once I was of a certain age, that my ability to take a vow of celibacy for a life was pretty weak. But he said, I knew, I discovered that I could take a vow of celibacy for six months. So that's what he does.

[32:00]

And then at the end of six months, he checks in with himself to see if he's up for taking a vow of celibacy for another six months. In the Tibetan tradition, if you take on the vow of doing 108 prostrations every day, What do you do if you break your leg or are deathly ill or whatever? Well, you can always kind of mark the place by doing three. So realistic, so clearly recognizing human nature. And if all else fails, you can actually do the frustrations by visualizing them. I certainly have the experience, both with frustrations and doing the eight pieces of brocade, that there are certain changes in the body, in the energy body and in the physical body, and I suspect more subtle realms that come from visualizing the practices.

[33:26]

So please let yourselves consider what are the bedrock, what are the thread, what are the elements of this thread in my spiritual life that I will do without question? And let whatever that is be modest so that you build on what you actually do. not what you think you should do or hope you might do someday. So I wonder if any of you has anything you'd like to bring up on this or some other topic. Eddie. share an experience I had yesterday, my continuing dogs as teachers story.

[34:42]

Yesterday morning there was a fair amount of chaos in our house as we had a number of different workers doing a number of different things and kind of tying up the loose ends of the remodel. And since our dogs are upset and frightened by people they don't know. Lots of barking and excitement. I was making an effort to get them out into the studio because then if they can't, what they can't see they tend not to get upset about. But they didn't want to go. They knew that I had a plan and so every time I called them they would impatience arose. And I finally picked each one of them up, one at a time, and got them into the studio, first one, and then the baby was hiding under the table and didn't want me to get her, so I finally dragged her out, and I was not gentle with this puppy, and got her into the studio and closed the door.

[36:01]

A few minutes later I went out and she saw me and ran under Jim's desk, the corner of the desk, and curled up in a little ball. And I felt terrible and saw the consequences of my impatience and behavior on the response of this animal that I really care for a lot. And I sat down on the floor near her, not too close, and both she and our other dog immediately ran to me and jumped in my lap, licking and wagging. And as you were talking this morning, I was so reminded about that and struck by their extraordinary open-heartedness. and how quickly they're willing to turn from fear to affection.

[37:11]

And again, I can take a look at, can I turn that quickly toward myself? Yeah. Listening to your description, Think about Shadow, our big wounded dog, who for a while now, maybe a few weeks, has been inordinately needy. And he's big enough so that his wanting to be a lap dog is a challenge. Well, one morning, lasts over several weeks only one morning. I actually lay down on the floor and we had a full body hug. Oh, this is what he wants.

[38:16]

He'd really like to get up in the bed, but if he can't get into my bed, I can get into his. I think dogs can be remarkable teachers for open-heartedness and kindliness. I think a few of you have been noticing this young male coyote that's been kind of hanging out along the side of Highway 1 between here and the top of the hill. Coyote's mate for life. I didn't know that until this one came in to our room. And apparently his mate was killed. The Park Service people, bless their souls, determined that the skeleton they found where he was hanging out wasn't a coyote skeleton.

[39:24]

But from his behavior, it's either a coyote skeleton or he's a deluded coyote, which is of course a possibility. Anyway, all I know is that he's looking more and more bedraggled. And our vet knows coyotes quite well. He said, he just needs to be with that carcass and he needs to go through his grieving process and it will take some while and then he'll be okay. It's so easy for us to think that we humans are the only ones who have that kind of sense of connection. I had this thought arise recently.

[40:33]

I wonder if part of our tendency to be resistant to opening to the relational quality of existence of what is so, is because we may have some sense that with that openness to interconnectedness, interdependence, will come a growing capacity for experiencing the suffering of the world. From the outside it looks much more daunting than from the inside. Bill? One of the very first things you said in your lecture was a reference to the effects of growing up in a home or family.

[41:42]

Oh dear, [...] dear. It's huge. A coyote? No, it's a hawk. It ran into this one. It's there. Just let it be, let it recover. Yeah, I am. I just hope Joe doesn't come hunkering in. It's a big bird with a barred tail. That's what it looks like. Is it stunned or is it... It's quite... I hope that's all it is, but it's really ruined. Hit the window hard. Excuse me. Yes. one of the first things I said. You referred to the effects of growing up in a home or a family where there's not much kindness or gentleness. And I was arrested there.

[42:43]

I listened to the rest of the lecture and much of what I heard fully attentively. Because I have some sense of that, Think about it in terms of someone else I know. I can see the other a little more clearly than I can see myself. And so coming to acknowledge that with some generosity, some recommending, seems wholesome. But as a third party here, I realized that not only did he grow up in a home where there was no kindness or gentleness modeled, he grew up in a home where there was, what was modeled was discord and self-clinging.

[43:49]

So there's an impacting both in the inner penetrating of absent qualities and absent positive qualities and present negative qualities. And I think the disentangling of those is challenging to say the least. And coming to recognize the The absence of training and gentleness and kindness, if you will, can be painful enough, but then to grapple with the training and self-centeredness is another load that feels extremely oppressive. I think that sense of oppressiveness comes from generalizing our conditioning rather than being with what's arising right now in this moment.

[45:10]

It's part of the downside to getting too focused for too long on our story. One of the things that was so poignant and touching to me is that before class the other night, someone came up to me and just in his whole physical demeanor, this hesitant, vulnerable, how on earth would I develop kindness with myself? if I've never experienced that when I was a little kid. And as much what I experienced with him was not what he said, but the kind of feeling tone. And when I said, could you just hold that sense of yourself that doesn't know about kindness in your hands like this,

[46:18]

Not even for a whole breath. And he said, that would be enough. That could make a difference. Someone wanted to ask a question Monday night when Tenzin Pala was talking and didn't ask the question because Oh, I should know the answer to this question. This is a stupid question, or I'm a stupid person for having this question. Those are variations on the theme. And my heart aches when I hear that from someone because what I've come to understand over the years is that If one person has a question and is willing to risk looking stupid to ask it, there are other people in the room who have the same question, that there is an incredible kindness in honoring one's own question, because then there's a possibility that

[47:47]

that question arises for others. And so, a kind of kindness both to oneself and to others. Oh, I better not come in. The lecture's already started. It's crowded. I'll be disturbing. And yet everyone came late. Tenzin Pamo was sitting here waving them in. Can we waive ourselves in? And of course, how often do we not step over all that, oh, well, this is stupid, I should, et cetera. A want of kindliness of this. And of course, risking looking foolish.

[48:50]

One of the things that fades away when one has one's 60th birthday. Maybe. Well, certainly what happened to me was just not caring what people think about me anymore. It was like gone. Such a relief. Karen. Maybe that's coming later. I've been just sort of chilling with for a couple of weeks now. It has to do with a kind of kindness practice that I didn't realize I both needed and it arose of itself. The kindness was towards myself in the event of being overwhelmed by what my monastery has been doing, being amazed what arose for me was, my God, how much negativity and judgment and criticism.

[50:01]

I'm imbued with it, it's there all the time. But the response to it was not a reaction of judgment or criticism, but it was just, I am so surprised, I am totally amazed. And that has been taking me away from, it was as if it had to get away from not doing anything, being overwhelmed and powerless. And as I've been considering it, because it goes on, it went on this morning, it goes on all the time. It was as if it had to get so acute, so incredibly acute, it's like it had to fester, and this is a volcano of negativity, judgment, criticism, that I'm just filled with. It's coming out of my ears and my eyes. And what it takes is my noticing. It was like, knock, knock, I'm back, and here I am. And I think I have been, in a sense, trying to make it look good, and be nice, and be smart, and do all of these other things.

[51:02]

Now I need some help in what I'm going to do, or how to go about kind of dealing with this mindstream, because it feels as if I do need some guidance to do that. But I'm not hiding it, and I'm not ashamed of it. And that for me seems like an enormous place to approach it. So there is a quality of generosity that arose out of that. Well, it also sounds like, along with amazement, maybe some kernel of or seed for curiosity and interest. Oh, look at this. You know, I asked Hirata Roshi about how he would suggest people work with a strong habit of judgment. He works a lot with Westerners, but I'm still not convinced that he gets the kind of poison effect of this particular habit pattern, which is so strong for people in this culture.

[52:18]

But his answer just... I was not prepared for his answer. You know, he speaks in Japanese and then there's a translator and so there's this long... I mean, the answer he gave went on and on and on and on. And he's going like this and there's all this energy in his answer. I'm like, holy mackerel, what is he... What is he saying? And he said, this is very helpful. And I thought, helpful! But of course, what he was pointing out was not looking with the mind of either or, but look with the mind of both and. Our capacity to be critical of ourselves is very important. We need to be able to apply that lens and there are times when we need to put it aside and rest with the breath.

[53:25]

Put it aside. So he's both talking about the usefulness of that capacity for analysis and judgment and investigation, et cetera, but there are times when it must be put aside for the cultivation of the mind that settles underneath thought, thinking. Changing that capacity to change our relationship to thought so that thought thinking isn't in the driver's seat. But it just blew my mind. This is very helpful, I thought. Roshi, what are you talking about? And it took so long to say that. Well, I've learned over the years that this particular translator with whom he has a real heart connection, but her Japanese isn't as good as I had thought it was.

[54:28]

So I have, you know, this is on tape, so maybe we'll get it translated more fully. But just what did get translated was very useful. Because, of course, here we are caught with aversion and judgment of judgment. Yeah. Maybe that sheds some light on my continuing problem with should. On the one hand, I think it's a motivator. It's a motivator for On the other hand, I judge it severely as sadistic nonsense, and it really gets in the way. And it's a source of judgment, self-judgment, all the time. And it's a difficult balance, I guess, that I don't settle into very easily.

[55:39]

So maybe it's the same. take Radharoshi's teaching and use it here with my shoulds. When shoulds arise, sometimes, perhaps, it seems true that I need to pay attention to those shoulds. And at other times, I should let them go. Perhaps. Anyway, let me hear what you think about shoulds. Well, of course, immediately what comes up is a bumper sticker. I saw one. Don't should on me. I think there's a very interesting possible exploration with should, obligation, and intention. And to the degree that the realm in which a thought of I should do such and such or I should not do such and such

[56:44]

is habitual, there's a higher likelihood that this particular should is not examined from the standpoint of motivation. And I think that there are certain obligations, if you will, that we choose to take on and want to take on by virtue of history, long-term connection, filial duty, whatever. But that when I examine my motivation for taking on a certain obligation or should, where that's conscious and not just habit, unexamined habit, I can be much more discriminating about what I'm doing with that sense of, yes, this is an obligation I feel and that I'm accepting, I'm taking up.

[57:53]

And I think that the more experience I have with a clear intention with respect to what I'm aiming toward cultivating, there's a very different flavor to intention in that sense. And often the realm of should really is about unexamined yearning for something that I might reframe in the language of intention and free up some energy for moving toward what I haven't yet fully cultivated. If I have an intention to cultivate willingness to see what arises, no matter what, no matter how troublesome or dreadful I find what I'm seeing, that intention includes not being willing, but being willing to notice the not being willing.

[59:04]

Being willing to notice where I am, not where I want to be. So there's a little more spaciousness and openness, more process orientation than outcome orientation. I think that any habit in the mind stream, it's beneficial to examine what's habit because so often I'm just not paying attention to what my motivations are. I'm doing this because my father said I should do this, and it's what he wanted me to do, and I'm not going to let myself even think about whether this fits or not. For example. I think, you know, to the degree that this category of thought is arising for you, my response is, if I put myself in your shoes, can I trust myself enough?

[60:38]

Can I trust the process of, oh, this is coming up for me to look into? Hmm, I think I'll look into this. In particular, not in general. You know, I might keep a little notebook in my pocket and just keep a laundry list of shoulds. And then a couple weeks later, I might sit down and look at the list and see what I see. No, I wouldn't say that all shoulds are off the map. I mean, I wouldn't say that about really anything. Because, you know, what we're studying is what arises in the mind. Should, reaction to should, reaction to the reaction of should. So we get a kind of chain.

[61:40]

Okay, one more question, yes. Yeah. I am struggling, and this is now for some years, with my Buddhist practice. And then, I can say I set up myself for a lot of self-deception. In the sense that, kind of like, I feel like like a failure trying to have a more consistent Buddhist practice. So every time I go to a retreat a week or two weeks and I'm feeling good with a lot of calmness and everything else that we get in a retreat.

[62:55]

But it's been so hard to carry away that practice. And also seeing myself falling into the busyness of our society and consumption. The interesting part is that, you know, there is obviously some awakeness in me that's been kind of like, it's become like, unskilled. But still, I feel like I can now have practice. You know, I'm like one of those, like, spontaneous practitioners. Like, oh, this is a good day to sit, so then I sit. And then it will pass like three or four weeks and then I'll sit again. things are very inconsistent. But you know, if you're interested in studying the mind, which is the prelude to training the mind, then you need to sit down when you feel like it and when you don't feel like it.

[64:08]

Because the mind is like this, it's this roller coaster of I feel like it, I don't feel like it, I feel like it, I don't feel like it. The human realm is described as the realm of busyness. We in the United States have perfected that to a very high art. But it's really all the habit of distraction. And we also have this idea in this culture that we can do it all. And I don't think we can. And I think that the great benefit in retreats is that we get a taste of what's possible with sustained deep dropping in meditation practice. But my experience is that what really penetrates our daily lives is what we do every day. And I am amazed at what happens for people who use the precepts as a practice path, or people who have a breath-oriented meditation practice, but where they begin modestly.

[65:16]

No matter what, I'm going to sit at the same time in the same place every day for five minutes. And once I've done that for two or three months, I can then extend it, if I'm ready, to 10 minutes. That's how I build confidence and consistency. I also think that in the United States anyway, I don't know about other parts of the West, there is not a lot of acknowledgement of the degree to which this is a path that assumes having a spiritual friend or teacher. And that relationship with someone who has some training and is farther along on the path than one than I am, means I have someone who will be a witness to my own process in meditation practice and can give me some coaching and suggestions about how to work with whatever the obstacles are that are arising.

[66:34]

It's a highly relational tradition. I know lots and lots and lots of people whose description of their spiritual lives would be very close to what you just said. And I think that to have a sustained, regular, ongoing practice integrated into our daily lives is where real transformation takes place. Otherwise one becomes a kind of retreat junkie. It's great, I mean. Looks good. Well, it's not just that it looks good. There's, you know, you get to really taste what's possible. So, anyway, good luck. Nice to see you all.

[67:30]

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