Before I introduce Rev. Anderson this morning, there are a number of announcements, quite a number of announcements. First of all, you can't hear, first of all I'd very much like to welcome those who are attending the conference or at least this talk for the first time. Quite a number of new faces. First of all, there is a car, the inevitable car, a red Ford with the lights on, it's UDK77T. Trains, we have got the times of the trains and the minibus will be leaving 15 minutes before the train times I'm about to announce. It says assemble here, I'm not quite sure where here is, at the information desk. The trains to London are the 1207, the 1412, the 1712 and the 1853.

[01:09]

Perhaps I should read it again, 1207, 1412, 1712 and 1853 with the bus leaving 15 minutes from our information desk at those times, 15 minutes before those times. There's also a bus, there's also a train to Plymouth, trains to Plymouth at 1139, 1347, 1832 and 1743. I'll repeat that, 1139, 1347, 1832 and 1743 with a minibus again leaving 15 minutes before those times. Money, if anybody owes money, if anybody owes Cathy Taylor money in relation to the conference, it is most important that they see her about that today.

[02:14]

It says in very large capitals, we know who they are. Three more notes, there's keys, please return to the desk, tremendously important, a silly inconvenience if they have to be chased and you have to send them back but we have to remind you. So please, please remember the keys to be returned to the desk. Feedback, the forms, the forms you've all been given, there's a letterbox now again on the desk, would you please fill that in, preferably this afternoon before you go when you can see the conference in some sort of shape, some sort of coherence, would you please post those or put them in the letterbox this afternoon. Finally, something about the pattern of the morning, particularly for those who have come first this morning, Rev. Anderson will be speaking first until we break for coffee,

[03:20]

the break at 10.25 and as Mark said earlier in the week, there'll be no questions in that time. If he should finish before time, then we'll simply go into the dining room, wait for the coffee and whatever to be served. Then at 11.10, we should reassemble here and there will be a question and answer session until lunch at 12.40. So we should be here until 10.25, then the break from 10.25 to 11.10, let's try and start sharp and carry on to lunch at 12.40. Now it is not a pleasure, but a joy to welcome Rev. Anderson to this conference. It's been our desire that somebody, most of all that Rev. should come from the Zen Center

[04:26]

in San Francisco for many years and indeed one of the ironic advantages of the timing of this conference is that he has been able to come. Years ago we had many Americans speaking at conference, often several, four or five if I remember rightly. And then, for a variety of reasons, we thought we could stand on our own feet without looking across the Pacific. So I think Rev's attendance here is kind of more than a token Americanism, because although he is something of a kind of all-American himself, with a birth certificate in 1944 in Mississippi to prove it, he's here obviously for all sorts of other reasons. But I do think he belongs to that strain of what I'd call radical sanity, which informs

[05:32]

American life, sometimes I think more than it does over here, because the quest there is more ardent, less amateur. And the Zen Center in San Francisco is, more than anything else I've ever had the privilege of seeing, integral to that quest, it's a luminary. Rev was telling us the other day that there's a young boy of about eight, he remembers an early memory, sitting under a table, probably in Minnesota when he was brought up, in silence, attending, I don't suppose he said mindfully, but attending to the dust and the motes in the light, in a ray of light. So I suppose his Buddhism goes very deep, as indeed it may go quite deep in many of our

[06:39]

lives. But it wasn't until he was about twenty-three, or he was twenty-three, that he went to Tassajara Mountain Center, a silent place, part of the Zen Center, in the mountains, near Big Sur and Karnal. And Tassajara, one of the most magical places in the world, is part of the, one of the three parts of the Zen Center, which has a place in San Francisco itself, another place in the country, near Muir Woods, Muir Beach, a few miles away, and then a long way away, a four hour drive away, the Tassajara Center. The Zen Center was, didn't start, nobody sort of said let's begin a project, it began when

[07:44]

an extraordinary man called Suzuki, Suzuki Roshi, came to America, came to San Francisco, at the end of the fifties, and started sitting, and the authority of his life, and its calm perhaps, attracted others, and around him grew, organically perhaps, what we now call the Zen Center, which is large, several hundred people, living residentially in these three places. Reb went to Tassajara when he was about twenty-three, and a year later joined the Zen Center in San Francisco, and his life, and its, have been integrally related with one another ever since.

[08:44]

Perhaps it's not necessary to tell you all the things he's done there, post he's held, they're very senior, but it's enough to know, not that information, but that the spirit of the Zen Center, its quest for sanity, and for community, and for mindfulness, informs him. Indeed, it might be quite an innovation just to sit here for the morning, without the necessity for speech. It might be more instructive. What about it, Reb? I don't want to say any more, because I think this is going to be a morning of words, of course, but also non-words. I hope it's going to be, I know it's going to be, the quietest, and the sanest, and the most calming, and the most radical part of our conference.

[09:46]

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. It's one of the first times I heard Suzuki Roshi speak, and I think this is loud enough?

[10:59]

How's this? How's that? How's this? I think the first time I heard Suzuki Shunryu speak, he was introduced also, and I think he felt like I feel today, namely, that John already said enough, practically brought tears to my eyes. But he also said that although the person who introduced him had said enough, that since people came from some distance, that probably they wouldn't like it if he didn't say anything. So I assume that's the case today, and you don't want to just leave now? So I'll try to talk without making too much noise.

[12:33]

What I say today is, I must admit I'm a little bit seasick from all that's happened this week. I've been deeply impressed by all of you, and quite stimulated by the talks and workshops, seminars that I've gone to. And although I may not mention specifically everyone that I'm indebted to, I think you'll be able to hear something about other people's contribution in what I say. How's this? Is this okay? The kinds of issues that this conference is dedicated to are very close to those of a

[13:51]

Buddhist meditator. The issue of the interaction between a form, limited existence, and its origin, are what we call Buddhism, or the Middle Way. The middle between, on one side, our limited painful existence and some boundlessness, and how these two, how we find the middle here between them, is our art. I'd like to start by just saying a short Chinese poem, which encapsulates the awakened way.

[15:04]

It's written by a Tang Dynasty Buddhist poet named Wang Wei. He said, in my middle years, I'd become rather fond of the way. I've retired to the Jung Nan foothills. When the spirit moves me, I go off by myself to see wonderful things that only I can see. I follow the stream to the source and sit and watch for the moment when the clouds crop up. Or, I may meet a woodsman and stop and laugh and talk and forget about going home.

[16:16]

This is a story of the quest for what is life, and it's an image of the human being going back to the source. Walking to the source of our life, and at that point, sitting and watching for the moment when life crops up. To catch life as we create it. Life is not passed to us. We are not the victims of a creator outside ourselves. We are all powerful magicians, and we are able to conjure up life moment by moment.

[17:34]

We are also completely effective meditators in the sense that we return to the source moment by moment. And then, conjure up a new life again. However, unless we are able to calm down, stabilize our psychophysical complex, we somehow miss this cycle. We somehow miss catching ourselves in our work. And if we don't catch ourselves as we create forms, as we create perceptions, as we create feelings, as we create emotions,

[18:37]

then we feel like they're happening to us. If we don't catch our own hands as we reach down into nothingness and pull something out, then we catch it later on in the process, and it looks like a full-grown tree, and we wonder, where did it come from? And we say, God must have made it. God didn't make it. Down there, God made it. In that silent, calm place. As a matter of fact, I believe in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, the Lord says, The first from the womb is mine. So our practice of meditation is so that we can be there as whatever life is first begins to break forth from the womb.

[19:53]

Like that sneeze, you know. The sneeze before she wipes her nose. So the following the stream to the source is what we call stabilization or calming. And the watching for the moment when the clouds crop up is what we call insight or wisdom. And the insight is that we understand that forms are illusory. And the reason why we understand it is because we create them. A magician is not fooled by his tricks. He catches them at the beginning. But if you wait for five minutes, the magician can create quite a scene.

[21:07]

And if you don't catch your own pain at the moment you create it, then you can be pushed around by it and frightened by it. So I like the expression, Who can untie the bell strings around the tiger's neck? You can imagine a little kitten with a little collar and a little string with some bells on it. You can go up to the kitten and untie the bell strings. Or you could tie the bell strings around the kitten's neck. But how could you untie it? Go up to a tiger? You could go up to the tiger if you were the one who went up to the tiger in the first place.

[22:12]

Perhaps when the tiger was a baby, you put the bell string around the tiger's neck. Then even when the tiger grows up, you still may dare to approach it and untie. Because you remember the tiger when it was a baby. You know the tiger from its origin. You're not afraid of it. But if you forget its origin, you'll be terrified by the tiger. You will be dominated by the tiger. When I was a boy, I was afraid of dogs. Of course, big dogs, but even little dogs. And I was a big boy. Little dogs could chase me all over the neighborhood. And somehow they knew that I was afraid of them. And they would come from long distances to get me. Then when I was about 15, still deathly afraid of dogs, my sister got a dog.

[23:27]

A baby, a male German Shepherd. His name was Mike. And he was a cute little puppy. And he grew and grew to be a, I don't know, 70 pound male German Shepherd with lots of male hormones. And my friends would come to visit and he would meet them. And I would say, sit Mike. And I would tell my friends, don't be afraid of him. He won't hurt you. Unless you move. But I wasn't afraid of Mike because I knew Mike's origins. And I stayed in touch with Mike as he grew up. Another story of, which is another poem actually, a child, a children's poem, which depicts the cycle of awakening, the cycle of calm and insight,

[24:56]

is a story by a French poet named Jacques Priver. I think it's called something like, How to Paint the Portrait of a Bird. If you want to paint a picture of a bird, first of all you get yourself a canvas. And then paint a cage. And then paint something pretty for the bird in the cage. Something useful. Something simple. Something beautiful. For the bird. And then paint the door open. And take the canvas and put it against a tree. And then sit behind the tree.

[26:05]

And wait. It may take a long time for the bird to come. But don't get discouraged. The slowness or fastness of the bird has no rapport with the quality of the painting. When the bird comes, if the bird comes, observe the most profound silence at that moment. When the bird enters the cage, paint the cage door shut.

[27:14]

Then, paint the bars of the cage away. And in place of the cage, paint a bow. Paint the most beautiful bow of the tree. And paint in insects and the sun and summer heat. And then wait and see if the bird sings. If the bird sings, this is a sign that you can sign the painting. Pull a feather from the bird and sign with that. I don't know how Jacques Prévert was able to write such a poem, but it's...

[28:23]

To me, it has all the basic elements necessary to understand what life is. And when I say understand what life is, I say that in the context of what is life? We don't know. We cannot understand what life is as an object. You can't look at life and understand it. There's no way to objectively understand what life is. But we can be completely alive. This is possible. The other night I watched a TV show about Cecil Collins.

[29:24]

And he said... It's interesting because when I first started looking at this painting, I didn't like them. But the more he talked, the more I liked them. And the more I saw his suffering face, the more I liked him. Such a sad face he had. And yet he was calm. And one of the things he said was... People think that you have to understand in order to create. He said it's the other way around. You have to create in order to understand. And I would say the same thing, slightly different. You have to catch yourself in the act of creation in order to understand. In order to understand what life is, you have to catch yourself in the act of creation. So right now this is set up so that it looks like I'm talking to you.

[30:34]

I'm the active one. But what I'm saying is not what you're hearing. Each of you is creating, moment by moment, what you're hearing. And I hope that you are taking responsibility for being very active right now. I hope that you are taking responsibility for being very active right now. I hope that you are taking responsibility so that you don't feel like I'm having more of an effect on you than you're having on me. I don't want to get into a contract, a relationship where I'm more active, where I am doing more than the other side.

[32:08]

So I ask, is anyone here not working as hard as me? I don't believe so. Do you feel that way? The poet says, put something nice for the bird, something pretty, something useful, something simple for the bird in the cage. This means to me that if you want to return to the source, the origin of creation, you have to take care of yourselves. I need to do something for myself, otherwise I won't enter the cage.

[33:37]

You need to nourish yourself back to the origin. We're not going to go back there if it's not pleasant. We're not going to give up all these elaborate life forms that we're conjuring up and go back to radical simplicity, to basically nothingness, unless we encourage ourselves. We're not going to dare to be calm unless it's comfortable. So calming is like nourishing the field or taking very good care of ground, of earth, smoothing it out, putting nice compost in it, aerating it, giving it worms, making the earth very, very rich and smooth and nice.

[34:50]

And not only that, but even two inches above the ground, nourish the two inches of air above the ground, because that's where the sprout comes. You have to take care of that too, so the sprout will dare to stick up out of the ground. And if you're taking care of that two inches, you'll be there when it sprouts up. You'll catch it. You'll know that you created it. He also said, when the bird comes, when the sprout comes up out of the ground, at that moment, continue to be quiet, even more quiet than before, because when the sprout first comes, there's a great tendency to jump for joy, to be overly excited by this first creation.

[35:55]

But if you get too excited, you break the link with it, you lose track of this, and then it grows ahead of you. And again, you think somebody else is running the show. This place, where this first little sprout sticks its head up, where the baby lion comes forth, where the bird enters, this place is the place from which ethical behavior begins. It's the place which is the balance between what society has worked out over the centuries, over the millennia, as the precepts of enlightened behavior, and what you yourself sense, taste, is right.

[36:59]

Right action is neither what other people think only, nor what I think only. But it starts, it should start with what I think. It should start with what I am thinking. It should start with the start of my thinking, and then I check with others. I should not violate what others feel. So when I wake up in the morning, when we wake up in the morning, when we come out of the ground, as soon as we can, we should say, Are you awake? To ourselves. Are you awake? And we answer, Yes, I am. All day long, don't let things fool you. I won't.

[38:09]

In Zen Buddhism, we have a radical and extreme emphasis on the phenomenal. We emphasize phenomenal experience. But when I say phenomenal, I mean actual phenomenal, not dreamy phenomenal. I mean this phenomenal which you recognize as just an apparent thing, something that you're not fooled by because you catch it as you dream it. So it's not that we stop the dream, it's just that when you know a dream is a dream, it's not quite a dream anymore. It's still a dream, but you know what it is. We don't get rid of the dream.

[39:40]

So there is the expression, which you may hear in a lot of Buddhist literature, about stopping thought. But stopping thought means that you calm the thought so that you can see thought for what it is. A bird swims, a bird flies in the air, and no matter how far it flies, it never runs out of air. A fish swims in the water, but no matter how far it swims, it never runs out of water. However, a bird and a fish never leave their element. If they should leave their element, they will die immediately. We should know that water is life for the fish, and air is life for the bird.

[41:20]

This is a quote from a passage by one of the ancestors of our lineage, and I adapted it for this conference. Human beings swim in confusion, and no matter how far they swim, they never run out of confusion. However, they cannot leave their element. If a human being leaves confusion, they will die immediately. Know that confusion is life to a human. It's not a matter of getting out of this stuff we create.

[42:29]

Because if we're alive, we constantly create illusions, delusions, confusion. This is the activity of our body and mind. Our body and mind sucks and secretes thoughts. Not constantly, but rhythmically, in a pulsing way. We squeeze all the thoughts, all the emotions out, and then we let go, and another pulse of them comes. Throbbing confusion. A feverish process of birth and death. What is life? Thomas Mann asks. He calls it the fever of matter. A rhythm of matter. So Buddhist practice is a rhythm about the rhythm.

[43:33]

A way for us to join the rhythm of life. Not to try to get rid of it, but to learn how to swim. And the way we learn how to swim is by putting our hands and our face, well, if you do the freestyle, your face and body and legs, put it in the water and start working with the water. Pulling it. Pushing it. Living in the water. Living in confusion. And don't do it tentatively. As my dance teacher this week said, just really step out in it, fearlessly, just dive into it.

[44:39]

You pull yourself through the water, mistake by mistake by mistake. This is the only way you learn how to swim. So today I'm not teaching you something, I'm just swimming in delusion. And I'm trying to not be too upset about it. But not by suppressing the water, but by swimming. Suzuki Roshi once told me a story about one of his teachers. This man was named Oka Sotan. Oka Sotan grew up to be a great and famous Buddhist teacher. But he was once a little boy. When he was a little boy, he was in a monastery and he was sent

[45:48]

to buy pickles for dinner. On his way to the pickle store, he saw one of these beautiful 19th century woodblock prints advertising a circus. He snapped out of his dream and ran to the pickle store. He got to the pickle store and he said to the proprietor, give them to me. And the man said, what? He said, the pickles. So the man gave him the pickles and he ran back. But part of the way back, he realized he had forgotten his hat. So he ran back to the pickle store and he said to the man, give it to me. And the man said, what? He said, my hat. He said, it's on your back. So he put his hat on and ran back to the monastery.

[46:55]

This is a story, for me, of swimming. This is a story of being alive. After he told that story, Suzuki Roshi said, he was a very good boy. And I thought, what was so good about that? Recently, after 14 years, I start to see, yeah, he was a good boy. If he had just gone to the store, got the pickles and come back, we wouldn't hear this story. This story would not be told, generation after generation. Now some of you probably will tell this story. It will spread throughout Europe. But not the story of going to the pickle store and coming back.

[48:06]

That won't spread. The story of going to the pickle store, becoming involved in distraction, going to the pickle store again, wholeheartedly distracted, wholeheartedly distracted, wholeheartedly distracted, wholeheartedly distracted. When the bell rang, he didn't just keep looking at the picture either. When the bell rang, he jumped and went to do what he was supposed to do. He was trying to do what his teachers wanted him to do, but he was also trying to live his life. And what we see here is a very good boy. Maybe you don't think so today, but if you think about it for 14 years, maybe you'll think this is a good boy. In this kind of a picture, or this kind of a story of how to live,

[49:33]

the point of emphasis is on experience. There's no encouragement to look beyond this present situation which we're in right now. Right in this form, right in this form is its origin. Right in this limitation is vastness. But don't look for the vastness. What we're trying to encourage is to meet things without getting ahead or behind, without being curious about the next thing or shrinking from this thing.

[50:39]

Meet things just right on themselves. And that's where we need to encourage ourselves. This cage, the cage of our present experience, we need to encourage ourselves to get in the cage and be in the cage. Only when we're completely in the cage will we be able to paint it away. But we also have to recognize our weaknesses, our habits, and somehow trick ourselves into the cage, trick ourselves into total absorption on our experience. And not because total absorption on this experience will release us from our suffering. No. Somehow don't even tell yourself. Encourage yourself to just be on this. And this is the art of life, to somehow be here on this,

[51:40]

to really feel that just this is it. How could that be? How could this be it? How could we be childlike enough? The name Suzuki Roshi gave me actually is, in Japanese, Tenshin. And ten, the Chinese character ten means the heavens, and shin means essence. But the name doesn't mean heavenly essence or celestial truth, which is what it literally means. The point is, he told me what it meant. He said, it means reb is reb. That's what it means. He said, this is your way.

[52:41]

He said, people may have trouble with that, but that's your way. Reb is reb. To take things in the most superficial, naive way, just like a child would. What's this? It's a watch. It's a watch. Nothing deeper than that. Nothing less superficial. No wise cracks. Just somehow this. This is the cage. This is the cage. My voice is the cage. My stomach, everything. Cage after cage. But the last part of my name is Zenki.

[53:51]

Zen means total or complete, and ki means energy or function. Tenshin Zenki. Reb is reb, total dynamic working. Those two together is what life is like. So in our meditation we try to see if we can be totally absorbed in this sense, in my experience of this body, in my experience of this breathing, in my experience of these thoughts. That is what we believe is the total dynamic function of life. And it's from there that we're able to act in the appropriate way. Fearlessly.

[54:57]

Kindly. Compassionately. And responsibly. And not responsibly like I should be responsible, but a more essential responsibility. A responsibility where you actually know what you have done. Where you catch yourself creating your world moment by moment. When you all realize that each of you is a powerful magician. Will you allow yourself, will we allow ourselves the leisure to encourage ourselves to return to the source and to sit and to watch for the moment when the clouds crop up. But remember, he says after that,

[56:10]

or I may meet a woodsman and laugh and talk and forget about going home. So if you go out into the gardens here to sit and return to the source and catch the moment when the clouds crop up, you may also meet a woodsman or woodswoman on the way and start talking and laughing and forget about this going home. It's the same. It's no special thing. It's no special thing.

[57:10]

It's no special thing, but I know my mind looks for a special thing. I'm going out to the garden now to meditate and I meet one of these people who trim the hedges and I start talking to him. I start laughing and forgetting about going home. A big part of Zen training is to grind into the student how unspecial it is to get the student willing to totally dedicate herself to ordinary activity, to daily life. Total absorption in daily life. This is the most grandiose meditation. This is the Buddha's mind.

[58:15]

And for the first several years you catch yourself wondering, could this be it? Why am I doing this? And the more intellectual background we have, the more questions we have about how could this be it? So this week I gave very simple instruction, didn't I? And in a way I feel, oh, I'm holding back so much richness, I could say, but... I know that the environment is very rich, so I gave very simple instructions and didn't explain anything. And you came and you sat. And you went and you came back and you sat. And probably, although I didn't tell you what it was about, you probably all have vast arrays of theories about how good it was. One last story.

[59:25]

I once took an airplane ride with Suzuki Roshi. And we were going from San Francisco to Portland, Oregon. And shortly after we took off, he said, I'm going to teach you how to count people in Japanese. So, you know, if you count like one, two, three, four, you go ichi, nichi, ichi, ni, san, shi, go. That's how you count just regular numerals. But if you count people, you go hitori, futari, san-nin, yo-nin, go-nin, roku-nin, chichi-nin, hachi-nin, ku, kunin, to. You count to ten. Ten people. So he said, he showed me.

[60:27]

He said, now you do it. So I went hitori, futari, san-nin, yo-nin, go-nin, roku-nin, chichi-nin, hachi-nin, kunin, to. And he said, keep going. So I kept going. And then he fell asleep. So when he fell asleep, I stopped counting. And he woke up. And he said, hitori, futari. So I started. San-nin, yo-nin, go-nin, chichi-nin, hachi-nin, roku-nin, chichi-nin, hachi-nin, kunin, to. And I kept counting. And I kept doing that until he fell asleep again. And then again I stopped. And again he woke up.

[61:29]

And again he said, hitori. So then all the way to Oregon I was doing that. He had to fall asleep and wake up twice for me to realize he actually wanted me to keep doing it all the way. And you see, since I did it all the way, I can still count people in Japanese. But going through my head at that time was, here is, here is the founder of Zen Center, the person I dedicate my life to, man of great wisdom, very ordinary, simple man, but my great master. And what is he teaching me? In the vast palatial terraces of Buddhist doctrine and meditational expertise, he's choosing to teach me to count people in Japanese.

[62:32]

How could it be? But anyway, that's the way he was. And so how childlike are you today? Can you learn how to count people in Japanese? Do you want to try? Hmm? No? Too much, huh? Well, maybe if we can go on an airplane together, one by one we can learn it. Thank you very much. Floating in a void and sensing something but not intending to concentrate?

[63:34]

No intention at all. It seems to happen. It's not what I am, but it's as if I were part of the air. Is there some problem with that? No. Good. I'd rather enjoy it. It sounds very wonderful. It sounds very wonderful. It sounds wonderful. It sounds wonderful. Yes? I'll save it for trouble. He asked if he only had one word left. Anything else?

[64:44]

Anybody want to talk about anything else? Yes? She said, in order to count people in Japanese, is it necessary to get up at half past six in the morning? The answer is no. However, it is necessary to get up. Why? She said, why? And my response is, I guess you can't count if you don't get up. That's all. My wife said to me, you're like this,

[65:54]

but you're always ready to go like this. I consider that a great compliment. When you're like this, there's no counting. There's no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind, nothing. No Japanese people, no Chinese people, no nothing. Okay? If you want to count, you have to go up. Then you count. But, you should be ready to go down. Sometimes we talk about, in our meditation practice, we try to sit up straight at whatever time of day it is, four in the morning, five in the morning, ten in the morning, at noon, sit up straight. And swoon. In erect, swoon. You know swoon?

[66:55]

Those two, those two together. This is concentration. They're balanced. Or where they vibrate between each other. Okay? I'm not saying it's easy, but if you keep trying, you can do it. Yes? What did you say?

[68:00]

Could you hear her? No. She said, I said, Through meditation practice, we, I recommend that through meditation practice, we can become like children. We can approach things with a real, naive, innocence, and freshness, that comes from, if you can go down, then when you first come up, you're like a child. You're not sophisticated. This is totally, totally, naive. Okay? She said, what about if you have a child? How do you, how do you bring a child up? Did you say that? Well, if you'll excuse me for saying so, the first thing is, I guess, maybe question about this bringing the child up. Maybe don't bring it up.

[69:02]

Maybe, just watch it grow up, on its own. That we're, to be visited by these little ones, these fresh ones, is something which we should, fundamentally, I think, just be grateful for. And then, if we can assist them in any way, in their great project, give them food, give them some language, give them our own body and mind, give them our own attempt to be children. We were talking last night about, if you can be a child with your, with your child, your child can grow up. They can be strong if you can be weak. If you dare to be weak, if you dare to make mistakes, they can dare to make mistakes. If you teach children that you're not afraid to make mistakes, then they can try, to do something. If you don't take any chances, if you're never a fool, they'll be afraid to take chances.

[70:05]

Show them that kind of person, this is pretty good. But of course, it's extremely difficult, because, especially for mothers, because you, you know, the baby calls, and you want to give, but at some point, the best thing, the kindest thing to do is to say, you take care of it yourself. And finding that place is very difficult, because they're so close, you know. They're just one layer of skin away. So a mother's job is very painful. A teacher's job is very painful. But if you can feel that pain, and be there with it, that's a great encouragement to your child. Yes. In fact,

[71:11]

in micro-analysis, empirically, we understand that not many people do. Do they help? Do they need help? What's your relationship with the right thing to do? I'm in a relationship of, of interdependence. I need them, they need me. I'm emphasizing this, going back to the source, and catching, catching life as it happens. But, I think everyone's basically doing that in different, but in somewhat different contexts. Did you hear what the question was, by the way? So, I see it as a, as a circle, or a mandala. In a traditional Buddhist community,

[72:12]

you would have, within the community, all these things that, that we now talk about. You'd have acupuncturists, masseuses, psychoanalysts, herbalists, martial arts teachers, they'd all be in the community somewhere. Painters, poets, they're all one pattern, and they have different positions, but they're all vibrating and moving around. And, no matter what position we have in the mandala, we should take, we should go on pilgrimage. In other words, if a monk, for a monk to go on pilgrimage means that he leaves the monastery. For a lay person to go on pilgrimage means he goes to the monastery. Monks should, monks should, I don't, should, should be, should have psychotherapy, or should paint, or should dance. But dancers should also be monks,

[73:15]

and have psychotherapy. We should all move around so we don't get stuck in some position in the big picture. Because actually we're all vibrating and depending on each other, so sometimes we have to manifest that by moving. Sometimes you can't feel it unless you go someplace else. So that, I see it as one, you know, portion of being, and we're all helping each other, swimming together. And we shouldn't be arrogant and not be willing to go learn from a different part of the picture. We need help to, to realize, to see beyond, not see beyond, we can't see beyond our own narrow view. We can't see beyond our own narrow view. So what we need to do is realize how narrow our view is. If you go out in the ocean,

[74:17]

where there's no islands, and look around, you think the ocean is circular. But the ocean is not circular. It's infinite in variety and appearance. So, sometimes you have to move a little bit until you hit an island so you can realize that it's not a circle. Still you're, you can only see so far, but you should know that you, that we're very limited. Our nervous system is built on limitation and division. So, we have to remember that somehow and, and we need help to remember it. Somebody has to point out something beyond the perimeter to us sometimes. Yes? Do you see the Buddha as a man or as a woman or as a man? I see the Buddha

[75:23]

as a, as a unification or a dance between the man and the woman. Not so much between a man and a woman, but between masculine and feminine. On one side you have, we have, the Buddha is flanked often by these, these two great beings. In Sanskrit they're called Samantabhadra, Avalokiteshvara, and, and Manjushri Bodhisattva. Manjushri is the masculine side. It just sees one thing all the time. One thing. Namely, everything is illusion. Whatever it is, it's illusion. Illusion. [...] It's all he sees. Everything you show Manjushri something, he cuts it. That's one side of Buddha. He never, whatever you show him, he's never fooled by it.

[76:24]

The other side is Avalokiteshvara, which means the one who hears the cries of the world. And she thinks, I mean, she doesn't say, oh, that's just another illusion. She goes to each crying voice and takes care of it. Gets involved in changing diapers and brushing teeth, her own teeth or, or somebody else's teeth. Taking seriously all these multiple, multiple forms. So the harmony, the balance between them is, is, is awakening or the Buddha. Vibration, vibrating back and forth. You always have one or the other, but you can't have one without the other. This is the Buddha. But, in the present cycle of the world history, the Buddha got to be a man.

[77:26]

Yes? He said, could I say something about discipline and how discipline is important to me? And then you said? What kind of discipline? Outer discipline. Yes. When you're in a certain structure of your mind, maybe you can't go there, but it's a process, right? Well, it's interesting because, as I've mentioned to some of you already, I just finished having a series of conversations with a Benedictine monk who I'm, I'm good friends with. And, he and I were, the topic of the conversation was the relationship or interrelationship between the monk and the lay person.

[78:33]

And after we talked for a while, we realized that there was no such thing as a monk and no such thing as a lay person. But rather, there's, there is, a person is committed to being awake and mindful or not. And among those who are committed to being awake, there is a range and at one extreme we have the monk and the other extreme we have the lay person. The monk is the one who wants to live in a situation, in an environment, both physically and environmentally, external, live, his own body and the people he lives with and the buildings he lives in constantly remind him of what? Are you awake? If he if he picks up a glass, he knows there's a certain way to pick it up. And if he doesn't do it

[79:36]

that way, he's reminded. Are you awake? So, I've spent a number of years being in a situation which reminds me all the time. Are you awake? Are you awake? I live with people who are reminding me and who I remind. Not so much by saying are you awake? But just the way I walk down the hall reminds them. They think, they see me, they think, am I awake? I see them, I think, am I awake? So it's a very supportive environment. This is the monk extreme. The lay extreme is to be in an environment where the environment doesn't say to you, are you awake? Okay? My particular temperament is I like to be also this physical posture. This is a posture which says to me, are you awake? You sit this way, this yogic posture constantly asks you, are you awake? What are you doing here? What's life? Constantly this posture asks that question.

[80:37]

So I particularly, my background of my composition as a human being, I have thrived in this situation because for me, being in a very supportive physical, psychophysical and external environmental system, I thrive because when the outside is very still, the inside is very dynamic. So when I sit still, I realize how totally out of control I am. And I like that. That's what attracted me to Zen. I just cross my legs and realize that I'm a wild man. Great areas of untapped energy came up that I thought I had the control over. Because ordinarily, if an impulse came up, I would move and I would think that that impulse, I wouldn't notice it. But by sitting still, I notice great emotional energy of my life. But some people

[81:40]

don't like that way. My wife is the opposite. So I'm outwardly still and inwardly moving and she's outwardly moving and inwardly still. She's all over the place. But inside she's immovable. So some people like to live in the lay life where the outside world doesn't remind them to concentrate, to return to the source. But they still are trying to return to the source. But both extremes have to go on pilgrimage. The monk must leave the supportive environment to see if his meditation can stand So now I'm going to grow my hair out, change my disguise and go to France and I'll see how I do. But lay people should sometimes go to monastery to see how they do, too. So we all should go on pilgrimage on some basis. Everyone needs discipline.

[82:41]

It's basically a question not of whether you have discipline or not. You must have discipline. And the main thing you are disciplining yourself in you're a disciple of yourself. You must discipline yourself at being yourself. You must settle yourself right in yourself. Everyone must do this. There's no alternative to that if you want to be awake. The only alternative is whether your environment is supportive of that or not or to what extent your environment is supportive of it. And one other thing I want to make clear is that some people are monks but don't appear to be monks. In other words some people find living among sick people as very supportive. Some people if they work with lepers or dying people they feel constantly reminded of meditation. So it's not just a traditional monastery that can be this kind of environment. What I mean is

[83:43]

what you personally feel is supportive. Or unsupportive. Does that speak to you at all? So Zen is the hallmark of Zen is take your for the monks is take your meditation out of the monastery and go into the street with it. So another thing I would like to start doing is working with troubled children in the San Francisco streets. There's lots of runaway children in San Francisco and child prostitutes. And I'm still you know I think particularly with young boys I think I have something I have some rapport and I would like to spend time with them. But that's a very unsupportive situation. They're much sharper than me. Constantly tricking me and fooling me. Getting me upset. Making me feel like a fool. I need that.

[84:45]

Anybody that hasn't asked a question want to ask a question? Yes? He says is it necessary to have a guide? He said a master also. And I would say a friend. It is necessary to have a friend. He said how does he teach? He teaches by being himself or herself. They don't teach you something. They teach you themselves. That's basically what they teach. But again you know we all live in this circle of water and we need some even if we get very take very good care of ourselves there we still need outside somebody has to remind us that we're we're limited. There's more in the world than just us. And we need somebody who's skillful at helping us realize that. Anyway if you actually

[85:55]

start meditating you'll pretty likely realize that you need some help. I think your experience will humble you enough so that you you'll want to have a friendship with somebody who's been doing it longer than you. That's my experience anyway. When I started meditating I found it was very important but I didn't know whether what was happening to me was terrible or wonderful. I didn't know if this was it or I should quit. And so I went and I found a teacher and just that he was there I never had to ask anymore. I just felt like whatever it was was just like breakfast food to him. So I think we do need I think we do need a teacher. I've never met anyone who didn't have one who really understood themselves. But I haven't met everybody so I just live in this little circle so maybe there's somebody out there. Yes.

[86:55]

How does Zen Buddhism speak to this need? He said there seems to be a basic human need for ritual and spectacle. And how does Zen Buddhism speak to this need? Well it's interesting because there's some people here in Thot Ness who practice Buddhism and who say that they're not even Buddhists. And in a way the original spirit of Zen was very much to downplay ritual and be very ordinary. However if you are thoroughly ordinary your life becomes ritual. If you are intensely ordinary your life becomes ritual. For example if you look at the physical behavior of people who have been

[88:10]

practicing yoga for many years their bodies become very childlike and they start using their hands and feet. You notice their hands are often in positions like a child's are in. You know like babies do this a lot. If you actually take on formal postures for years you become very much like a child in the way you use your hands and feet and face and so on. But also if you look at children they often make classical yogic mudras like this and they hold them. My daughter I used to find my daughter like this sometimes. Of course it's a little sloppy maybe but the human being in a state of completely being itself is a yogi and there's formal side and informal side. Child is a yogi. Feel the child's back. They're warm all the way around front and back. The temperature is

[89:10]

evenly distributed throughout their body. If you leave them out without enough clothes on they turn a certain color. They start getting blue right? But blue all over. If the room is too hot they get red all over. Now this is something where if an adult does it they bring them to the University of Kansas or something and study them. This is a phenomenal thing. These people are what we call yogis because they have a body like a child. So it's not so unnatural to do these rituals. They actually their origin was was out of human life. Then they became institutionalized and then they put clothes around them and rung bells when they did them. They said come look at the ritual. Come look at a human being.

[89:56]

@Text_v004
@Score_JJ