Good evening and welcome. So I've been speaking about some of the cases in the Book of Serenity Koan collection. So I want to continue this evening with case 19. These are not Koans, just to say this, are not riddles to solve or nonsensical stories for that matter, but actually somewhat pithy, but teaching stories that from our tradition that have to do with, that have been studied for, oh, in this case, over 1,000 years, as aspects of our practice and to inform our practice. The case tonight, a monk asked Yunmen, when not producing a single thought, is there any fault or not?

[01:11]

Yunmen said, Mount Sumeru. So that's the whole story. Yunmen was known for brief responses. Douglas, if you could. For example, when asked what is the teaching of a Buddha's whole lifetime, he said, an appropriate response. So these are brief appropriate responses to particular questions. The monk asked Yunmen, when not producing a single thought, Is there any fault or not? And Yuanmen said, Mount Sumeru. So I feel like this story has a lot to say about our Zazen practice. So the cases and the verses are from Hongzhe, a great Chinese master a century before Dogen, who brought this tradition to Japan in the 1200s. Hongzhe picked the cases and wrote verse commentaries.

[02:18]

I'll read that and come back to it later, maybe. Not producing a single thought. Mount Sumeru. Yunmen's gift of teaching is not stingy in intent. If you come with acceptance, he imparts with both hands. If you go on doubting, it's so high you can't get a hold. The blue ocean is wide. The white clouds are peaceful. Don't put so much as the tip of a hair in there. A phony cock crow can hardly fool me. I still won't agree to let you pass through the gate in the confusion. So Mount Sumeru, well, let me first read the introduction by Wansong. I always admire the novel devices of Yunmen. All his life, he pulled out nails and wedges for people. Why did he sometimes open the door and set out a bowl of glue or dig a pitfall in the middle of the road?

[03:20]

Try to discern. So again, the story, a monk asked Yunmin, when not producing a single thought, is there any fault or not? And Yunmin just said Mount Sumeru. So first, Mount Sumeru is, in Buddhist cosmology, the kind of axial or central mountain in the universe. It's the mountain from which everything is, well, it's the center of the whole universe. In many traditions, there are, in many indigenous traditions, there are sometimes central trees. But Mount Sumeru is supposed to be the mountain around which everything is formed. It's sometimes identified with Mount Kailash in Tibet. We don't have it as a actual mountain. But anyway, in this case, we can see it as a block, a blockade.

[04:26]

We're not producing a single thought. Is there any fault or not? Mount Sumeru. Stop. Mount Sumeru is this total, massive, highest mountain in the world. On the other hand, we might see it as a summit to climb. Have any of you ever climbed to the top of a mountain? Yeah, I've climbed to, you know, not real high mountains, but have any of you done rock climbing? So, ah, okay, one. So, how do you climb a mountain? How do you climb the central mountain in the universe? Or how do you see, ah, can't move forward a step, Mount Sumeru's in front of you. Well, the question here I find very interesting. We're not producing a single thought. Is there any fault or not? So some of you have heard me say, fairly often say, that the point of our practice is not to get rid of thinking.

[05:39]

As we sit here quietly, still, often there are lots of thoughts churning around. This is one of the first things people notice when they first come to Zazen practice, many thoughts. And so I think it's a popular, I don't know what to call it, a popular delusion to think that, oh, if I could just get rid of all the thoughts, that would be it. That would be enlightenment. I refer to this as the school of lobotomy zen. So, you know, you can have that operation and then you won't have any thoughts. The great 20th century Japanese master, Giyama Roshi said, that while you're sitting, your stomach continues to secrete digestive juices.

[06:46]

Similarly, your brain continues to secrete thoughts. So if you're alive, there are thoughts and feelings and sensations, perceptions, and consciousness, as the Heart Sutra says. However, so I don't know if you should not repeat that I said this, but in the midst of sitting, It's not that you should try and get rid of thinking. That's just more thinking, of course. But you might experience some space between the thoughts. It might be that for some period, for a moment, or sometimes several moments, you might be not producing a single thought. And this can be really delicious sometimes, I have to admit, that it's tempting just to be in that space where there's not a lot of thoughts rumbling around.

[08:03]

That's not the point of our practice, but it can be and if it's sustained, can be a remarkable experience. So there's a couple of stories about this. Great Master Yaoshan, Yaksan, who was a couple of generations before Dongshan, who wrote the Jewelmare Samadhi, who's the founder of this lineage in China. Yaoshan was once sitting quietly. And a student asked him, what are you thinking of sitting there so steadfastly? And Yaoshan said, I'm thinking of not thinking. And the student said, oh, how do you think of not thinking? And Yaoshan said, beyond thinking. It used to be translated as non-thinking.

[09:07]

Anyway, beyond thinking. So, you know, part of what happens when we're sitting in Zazen is we can connect with a kind of awareness. I don't want to call it a kind of thinking. Maybe Yaoshan says it's beyond thinking. But a kind of awareness that is not thinking, and it's not not thinking either. It's not mindless. Maybe it's mindful, but it's not thinking. It's a kind of awareness that you may be aware of some ache in your shoulders or knees. You may be aware of hot or cold. You may be aware of the sound of the heater kicking on or just ambient sounds in the room. There's a kind of presence, a kind of awareness that maybe we could call beyond thinking.

[10:07]

So is that what this monk is asking about, when not producing a single thought? Well, maybe. Is there any fault or not? So maybe this monk was a really good meditator. He'd been sitting in a monastery up in the mountains for a long time, and he was able to do this yogic feat of not producing a single thought for some sustained period. And he wondered if that was wrong or not. And Yun Men responded, Mount Sumeru. So we could spend a lot of time talking about Mount Sumeru and what is Yun Men saying here. There's another story, actually a poem that occurred to me as part of what this is about. This is a poem by the great Tang Dynasty, Lei's Chan adept, Wang Wei. Wang Wei was a great poet.

[11:11]

He was also a great, it's said, a great painter and a great musician. Unfortunately, none of his paintings survived, and they didn't have any recording studios back then, so none of his music survived. But his poems have survived, lots of them. And one of my favorites is, I'll say the whole poem, but there's just two lines that are really relevant here. In my middle years I've grown fond of the way I head out from my hermitage on South Mountain to see the sights that only I can see. I follow the stream back to the source and sit and wait for the time when clouds arise. Perhaps I meet a person of the woods, we talk and laugh, and I forget to go home. So the two lines, though, that one might take as a relevant meditation instruction, I follow the stream back to the source and sit and wait

[12:24]

for the time when clouds arise. Have any of you ever done that? Have any of you ever gone to the place where a stream starts? Douglas, you're shaking your head yes? Yes. Yeah. I did it once at Tassajara, one of the side creeks from the Tassajara Creek. So this is up in the mountains, of course. Did I get to the very source? Close. Anyway, you can do this even if you're not at the source, even by the side when it starts to get, when the stream gets very thin. I know when I was camping in the mountains in Colorado, outside Boulder, I came to a place where The spring started. So, and my name, original source, Tai Gien. The Gien is the source of a stream in the mountains. Source of a stream.

[13:27]

We can take that literally, or we can take that as a response or a commentary on this story. And it's possible to do that while you're sitting, and maybe it's hard to do it in one period of sitting, but if you sit for longer, follow the stream of thoughts back to the source. Can you see your thoughts as they arise? Often we're just caught up in a train of thoughts. And they rumble around. But follow the stream back to the source and sit and wait for the time when clouds arise. Some thought, some feeling, some perception. Blip. It's actually a kind of lovely practice. Now, is that not producing a single thought? Well, there might be while you're waiting there, while you're sitting right next to the source.

[14:35]

You might have a period where there's not a single thought produced, but then a cloud arises. Anyway, so this is a story in a way about thinking, about thoughts and feelings. And of course, our sitting practice is not about getting rid of thoughts, but, you know, sometimes there's a space there. But the point is, can we be steady within the world of thoughts and feelings? Right in front of Mount Sumeru, as it faces us, or as we start to climb. And sometimes, you know, walking in mountains, it's fun not to try and climb to the top. I don't know why that urge seems to be there, but just to walk around, you know, on the side of the mountains, maybe up a little bit, down a little bit, anyway. My experience of mountain walking is like that.

[15:40]

So how do we... confront Mount Sumeru? Or what do we do about Mount Sumeru? Or what does Mount Sumeru do about us? So I'll read some more from the case itself, and then maybe we'll have some time for reflections. So this is from Wansong's commentary on the basic case. Again, the monk asks young men, when not producing a single thought, is there any fault or not? Mount Sumeru. So Wansong, the commentator, quotes another teacher who said, this case is debated everywhere. Some say as soon as one questions in this way, already this is raising a thought. Well, of course. A fault as big as Mount Sumeru. Some say it is like Mount Sumeru, unmoved by the eight winds, remaining steadfast for a thousand ages.

[16:49]

So Mount Sumeru doesn't care whether you're thinking or not. Some say that because it is difficult for people to pass through, it is like Mount Sumeru. So this is considered a very difficult case. Such assessments have not yet comprehended young men's meaning. Only if the bottom of the bucket has fallen out and the red thread is broken off will you realize it is not so at all. Haven't you heard it said that three phrases illumine one phrase. One phrase illumines three phrases. Three and one do not intermingle, distinctly clear the road going beyond. There's a formulation of Yunmeng's three phrases that Every statement by Yunmin has three aspects. Let's see if I can remember them. Going along with the flow, cutting off the flow, and the third one I forget, anyway. But the point is Mount Sumeru.

[17:54]

Another teacher said, Yunmin's answer has provoked conscious feelings in many people. So many people are thinking about this right now. I say, he uses conscious feelings to get rid of conscious feelings. If he did not help people in a great way, he would be unable to assist. So how do we use our thoughts to, if not get rid of thoughts, to see through our thoughts, to not be caught by our thoughts? And part of the art of Zen practice is to see what we're up to, be aware of our thinking, but not get caught by them, not believe everything you think. So, Wansung quotes a couple more verses about this by other teachers about this story. Mount Sumeru, it fills the universe. Even the thousand armed great compassionate one, Kanzeon, cannot see through it. If you know on your own how to ride an ox backward, you'll never stick to following people all your life.

[19:06]

So how do we get free of conventional thinking? Our usual thinking is subject and object. We have thoughts, there's a subject, there's a verb, there's an object. As soon as we start thinking, there's a separation. Some languages are less logical and dualistic than English perhaps, but as soon as you have a thought, There's something over there or there. How do we not be fooled by that? Another verse, the unconcerned surrenderer seeks a criminal name. At the moment of his capture, he loses his whole body. As for those who rush in pursuit before the true facts are called forth, I don't know how many are standing outside the gate. So it doesn't, still, even if you surrender to Yunmen, you're still blocked by Mount Sumeru, this verse is saying.

[20:13]

I'm gonna go back to Hongzhe's verse, and then Wansong's comment on it, which has some helpful elements. So Hongzhe wrote, not producing a single thought, Mount Sumeru. Yunmen's gift of teaching is not stingy in intent. If you come with acceptance, he imparts with both hands. If you go on doubting, it's so high you can't get a hold. The blue ocean is wide, the white clouds are peaceful. Don't put so much as the tip of a hair in there. A phony cock crow can hardly fool me. I still won't agree to let you pass through the gate in the confusion. So Mount Sumeru is an obstacle. Mount Sumeru maybe is a gate. So some of Wansung's commentary on this verse is worth repeating. In Sanskrit, Sumeru means wonderfully high. Being composed of four precious minerals, it is called Wonderful.

[21:15]

Standing out alone above all peaks, it is called the High One. Of the mountains and the four quarters, Sumeru is supreme." Well, the poem says, if you come with acceptance, he imparts with both hands. An ancient poem says, wait till they agree in their hearts. That's when my command carries through. Wansung says, in actuality, this thing is always obvious, out in the open, like a black mountain, high and steep. Who can cover it? Before it is imparted, do you really have no share? Imparted to you, is it newly gained? So is there fault? One of our precepts that we spoke, talked about yesterday was to not speak of the faults of others. But what about the fault of our thoughts?

[22:16]

What about the fault of me? What about the fault of Sumeru? What about the fault of Yunmen? Another old master said, this thing, on some quotes, this thing is like cliffs crumbling, rocks splitting, standing like a mile high wall, impossible to get a hold on. Onesung says, in reality, you have never been apart from it. I have never taken it away. This and the above phrase are opposite in illusion and enlightenment. Complementary opposition is distinctly clear. In the teaching, it says that Mount Sumeru goes 80,000 leagues below the water and 80,000 leagues above the water. Only an ocean could accommodate it. The mountain has never moved for all time, and the clouds appearing and disappearing are always peaceful. So then Wang Sun quotes Dong Zhan, who wrote the Song of the Jewel Mara Samadhi and who founded the Sun Yat-sen in China.

[23:22]

Dong Zhan said, the green mountain is the father of the white clouds. The white clouds are the children of the green mountain. The white clouds hang around all day. The green mountain doesn't notice at all. So the green mountain is not bothered by the white clouds drifting. So maybe a little bit more of the commentary. In this verse on Mount Sumeru, we are faced by every point. The bloodline goes through. Every beat is the order. It does not arbitrarily produce rationalizations, increasing conscious feelings. So when asked about thinking, Mount Sumeru, there's really nothing to do with that. Really, how can someone who doesn't produce a single thought still ask if there is any fault or not?

[24:24]

If someone is truly not producing a single thought, how could they be asking about faults? Anyway, even if you always remain in the state of not producing a single thought, when you bring it up to examination, what can it do? That is why it says, a phony cock crow can hardly fool me. I still won't agree to let you pass through the gate in the Confucian. So this is kind of like asking, well, what's the use? What's the point of not producing a single thought? This may be a meditative accomplishment, but really, what good is that? I'll close with a commentary on this from Dogen in the 1200s, much later on. So in one of his short sermons in his extensive record, Togen quoted the story.

[25:46]

Once a monk asked Gunman, not arousing a single thought, is there any mistake or not? Gunman said, Mount Sumeru. After a pause, Togen said, Mount Sumeru speaks about Mount Sumeru. Upon seeing a flower twirl, naturally one breaks into a smile. One thought is 100 years or 30,000 days. A woodcutter's shifting circumstances remain in the mountain." Duggan also says that people of the mountain live in the mountain. Here we are living near a lakeside. What does Lake Michigan think? If we don't produce a single thought, Lake Michigan.

[26:48]

Lake Michigan has waves on it though. Maybe we can see Lake Michigan's thinking there. Mountains have trees and ridges. Anyway, so what do you think of this thinking? Comments, questions, reflections. Maybe this is just a silly story, but anyway, it's part of our tradition. Yes, Douglas. Yes. Exactly. I wonder, is this a monk who's actually experienced that state and is asking about it?

[28:19]

The good or bad of it. Right. Now, Sumeru is just like, ah! Yeah. OK. Aisha? I heard this sort of similar to Douglas, maybe a little bit different, and I wondered if I was off, too. Was there some fault in your thinking? Well, it's a good and bad thing. Is there a fault or is there not a fault? And that Zen is not really about that hypothetical stuff. I often feel like those kinds of hypothetical questions, like if I do this, is it right? to deal with what's here.

[29:35]

Yeah, what's in front of you. We've been clear of whether this is false or not. Why not just deal with what's right here in front of you, not the heck of that? Okay. Other reflections, commentaries? Yes, Wade. Good. Excellent, yes. There's a saying by Shito who's a couple generations before Yaoshan who says, he's Yaoshan's teacher, he also said, The Green Mountain is not bothered by the white clouds drifting by. So yeah, that's a good way to express, you know, our sitting upright like Mount Sumeru.

[30:37]

Good. Good. Whatever's helpful is good. Yes, Dylan. Blood on your saddle? is the self before thinking? Ah, that's a different question. That's maybe a useful question. And yet, what is the self during thinking? What is the self in this karmic world where you are a product of causes and conditions? But still, we can wonder What is the self that goes beyond? How does Buddha go beyond Buddha? So yeah, I think that's a more productive question than the monk in this story had.

[31:41]

Jen. Yes, yes. Well good, then that's not a problem for you. She was selling TKs and she offered to give the person, the priest or whoever it was, a TK if he could answer one question.

[33:01]

Well, that's a very Diamond Sutra-like statement. But anyway, so he said, you don't have access to your past mind. You don't have access to your present mind or your future mind. Yeah, so the woman said that. The past mind is ungraspable. That's part of the Diamond Sutra. Yeah. OK. And so then the guy said, and she said, here's He didn't know what to say, so he went off to the temple and just burned all of his Diamond Sutra commentaries in front of the temple, right? You're bragging.

[34:27]

I can't say the question was not Buddhist. Which question? The question about thinking or the question about which mind? About which mind. Yeah. This is, it's like the immovable object and the immovable object and the... Mount Sumeru.

[35:27]

Good. That might have worked. So yeah, sometimes in these stories something wonderful happens and there's a sidestep. That's right. So part of the point again is not to get caught by our usual conventional thinking. That's exactly, you know, one way to see this story. So this is a story about about thinking and thinking about not thinking and then trying to assess that in terms of faults. Anyway, I've said too much. Any last question or reflection? I don't know if you had to follow up, Dylan, to what I said. Okay. Yes, he did.

[36:51]

Good. Okay. Well, thank you all for indulging in another one of these silly old stories. And Mount Sumeru, let's close with the four bodhisattva vows, three times.

[37:10]

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