Good morning, everyone, and welcome. For newcomers, I'm Taigan Layton, the teacher, the Guiding Dharma teacher at Ancient Dragon Zen Gate. Welcome, everyone. I can almost see one of our founding members returning, David Hill, welcome. not only one of our founding members, but the founding member who found our Ancient Dragons Zen Gate location at Irving Park Road. So anyway, good to see you, David. I want to talk this morning about the Bodhisattva precepts and a little bit about their current relevance. So these precepts come from a long tradition going back to the Buddha in India, developed in various ways in China and in the Japanese Buddhist tradition through Tendai Buddhism.

[01:16]

But the 16 precepts that we follow actually come from Ehe Dogen Zenji, the founder of what we call Soto Zen. So a few things I want to talk about about them. And then I'll talk about some of them. Generally, these are not restrictive or prescriptive like the Ten Commandments or something like that. They're not thou shalt not. Guidelines to how to express Zazen mind or Buddha mind in our everyday activity. They're reminders of how to help us express our deepest awareness in everyday activity. So I think they can be helpful now in our current

[02:23]

situation in this current time with the COVID pandemic, with big hurricanes on the Gulf, droughts in the Midwest farmland, and fires all through the West Coast. Can everybody hear me okay? Okay, thank you. You know, the exposure this year of history of systemic racism, so many things going on, this divisive election that threatens democracy itself. So after seven months of pandemic, I think many people are feeling some combination of just sadness and weariness, restlessness, fear, anger. This is a difficult time.

[03:27]

And I want to especially, I want to mention and encourage Sangha folks to honor COVID safety protocols. I think we, you know, get restless with this, but to wear masks and to social distance. Here in the Midwest, there are increasing occurrences of COVID in many states around us, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, especially. So please be careful. I think, as far as I know, none of our Saga members have had COVID, but anyway, please be careful. So just a reminder of that. So these 16 precepts that we have from Dogen in the 13th century are ways of responding to all of this from Bodhisattva values, from values that encourage awakening, awakening heart, awakening practice, and encourage us to encourage others towards awakening practice.

[04:50]

So how do we support bodhisattva values? How do we talk about all these things? Not from some partisan ideology or dogma, but from values, from ethical values. And for us, that's from bodhisattva values. So David, would you please share the screen and put up these 16 bodhisattva precepts? Okay, so they don't all come up at once. Maybe you could scan down to the 10 grade precepts, which is what I want to focus on. Yeah. Go up a little bit because I want to get the last of it. Yeah. Okay, good. Thank you. So the first three are just refuge to return home to. So you can just leave it there, David. Thank you. No, don't go up. Just go.

[05:52]

Yeah, just leave it there. That's great. Thank you. But just to say the first three are taking refuge To returning to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha, the next three are to embrace and sustain right conduct, to embrace and sustain all good, to embrace and sustain all beings. I want to focus on a few of these ten grave precepts we call them. We say a disciple of Buddha does not kill. A disciple of Buddha does not take what is not given. Sutla Buddha does not misuse sexuality, but they're not, they sound a little bit like the Ten Commandments, but they're not. Thou shalt not. It's guidelines. How do we remind ourselves of how we want to express Buddha mind, Buddha awareness, our innermost awareness in our everyday activity.

[06:58]

So it's not that by following these precepts or we have ceremonies to formally receive these precepts, it's not by doing that, then you suddenly become some perfect being and you have actually accomplished these. They are reminders. throughout our practice life of things to watch out for. So I want, so I'm going to just focus, as I said, on a few of them, and then we'll have some discussion on it. And I'm going to start actually with one that's further down. Disciple of Buddha does not harbor ill will. It's the next to the last one. This is the precept about anger. So, of course, we all have positive, negative and neutral responses to everything.

[08:10]

And there are lots of things that we might be angry about or very angry about. these days. And in fact, there's one commentary on these precepts that says, if you don't ever get angry, then you're not following this precept. But the point of this precept is not to harbor ill will. So you'll notice that this precept, I vow to embrace and sustain all beings, one of the three Pure precepts. So to respect all beings, to be respectful is important. It's sort of the background of all of these 10. To be respectful of everyone and of all beings, not just human beings. So to not harbor ill will means that when we do feel angry, not to turn that into

[09:17]

grudge or hatred. So the energy of anger is very powerful. So the point is, how do we use that energy in a constructive, positive way? How do we use that energy without being caught by it? How do we transform the energy of anger into resolve or resolution? into insight to see what is allowing us to feel our anger. It's not that somebody else makes me angry. Some situation in the world or in my own life or, you know, in your work life or in, you know, just the situation of having to follow, having to wear a mask when you go outside or following, you know, social distance or whatever it is. One can feel anger, or some difficulty with people you're working with, or your neighbors, or whatever, or your family members.

[10:27]

There's all kinds of situations in the world that allow us to feel our anger. But to turn that into ill will, resentment, grudge, damages us as much as anybody else. We get caught by that. So how do we use the energy of anger to see clearly what's going on, to see some situation? And then we can actually turn that in a constructive way. Oh, what's going on there? How can I work with that? How can I help the situation? How can I respond appropriately? How can I do something constructive? And of course, sometimes there's nothing to do. So we're trained in the practice of just sitting and being patient and waiting to see when we can do something constructive and helpful. But to just turn it into, to turn anger into resentment. and ill will and hatred is part of the problem that our society is caught in now.

[11:32]

So there's a lot more to say about that, about how to use anger constructively rather than turning it into some harbor of resentment and grudge and hatred. So that's a very important precept and it's something that, you know, the point of looking at these precepts is to, Remember that and to see when it comes up during our everyday activity during our week. And you know, sometimes it takes a while before we recognize, oh yeah, I'm making this harbor a little. So sometimes that's translated as don't get angry. But really that means to not harbor anger or ill will very quickly. So, okay. I wanted to start with that one, but I wanted to talk more about how we talk about that.

[12:35]

So there's, three precepts about that that I want to talk about today. So one of them is the precept about not lying. So I don't know if you can see my cursor here. Disciple of Buddha does not lie. And all of these precepts are kind of co-ops. They're complicated. Each one of these is a study. Each one of these is something worthy of studying. It doesn't just mean that I don't tell lies. It also means we help others not to lie, just like the disciple of Buddha does not kill means we help others not to kill. But each of them has a positive aspect. Disciple of Buddha does not kill means we also support life. Disciple of Buddha does not lie means we speak truth.

[13:37]

when we're following Buddha, which doesn't mean just, you know, some Buddha. So that's so taking refuge in Buddha is kind of, all of these come out of that. But Buddha means not just somebody who lived 2,500 years ago, but the Buddha in all of us. So how, as people who are practicing Buddha, sitting upright like Buddha, how do we, speak truth? How do we speak truth to power even? So Bodhisattva practice does not mean being neutral. It does not mean just being nice. Sometimes we have to speak our truth. We have to express our opinions clearly. respecting others, respecting all beings, listening to their voices.

[14:40]

But sometimes to respect others means that we have to say how we see things. We have to speak our truth. So to speak truth is complicated. Right view means listening to other views. doesn't mean being dogmatic about our views. So speaking our truth means being willing to listen to other people's views. How other people who have different views than ours, from their life contexts, have other views of reality. But still, It doesn't mean that we're neutral, that we think that all views are equally valid. We see damage in the world.

[15:43]

We see harm being created. We want to be helpful to beings who are harmed. So we have to express what we see as true. But then we do that flexibly because Reality is complicated. Truth is complicated. So just to not lie, to speak truth, means to actually listen to how other people see truth differently than we do. And to respect that their truth comes from their context, causes and conditions of their life. And so they may see things differently. And if we can listen respectfully to them, they may not be, sometimes there's no way to have a dialogue.

[16:45]

But if we hold on to our truth as the only reality, then there's no way to listen to others. So to not lie means to, try to hear the truth and also to speak our truth. This is difficult these days when there is so much divisiveness and contention and quote-unquote fake news and so much, I guess it's called tribalism, people living in different reality bubbles. But that doesn't mean we should not speak what we see as the truth, but how do we do it open to shifting how we see the truth. This is a very difficult precept these days. Due to each of our causes and conditions, we have a particular sense of what is helpful, what is harmful.

[18:00]

So truth is not about right and wrong, as if there's some absolute right and absolute wrong. That's how we get into darkness and become dogmatic. Our truth is the only truth. What is helpful? What is harmful? What causes healing? What causes harm? So for example, just to venture an example here, I think separating children from their parents and putting them in cages as our country is now doing on the southern border, I think is horrible. That's my truth. And I would maintain that, but other people may have other truths and I can respect them as human beings, but anyway. So there's so many different issues in our society now. That's just one example.

[19:02]

So it's difficult to speak truth now. It's difficult to speak truth, but respecting people who have other truths. And if we listen to them, maybe they'll listen to us. And sometimes we can't talk to each other. This brings me to two other precepts which I think are related very much. I want to talk about them together. This is a disciple of Buddha does not speak of faults of others and disciple of Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. So how we talk about any situation or, for example, what's going on in our country today. These two precepts together don't mean we don't talk about situations of harm that we see, but we can do that without name-calling, without

[20:16]

blaming others without talking about the faults of others. We can talk about the situation that's happening without demonizing particular people. Once we start name calling and demonizing and speaking and talking about the faults of others, there's no more conversation. This is difficult. We may feel like others are at fault. And, you know, sometimes some people, We have a whole, we have, well, we have, in my opinion, a faulty criminal justice system, or several criminal justice systems, different for wealthy people and for other people, or for black people and for white people. Anyway, that's a whole other topic. But if we can see the situation, not name call, even though maybe some government, some accountability may eventually happen for some people who do harm.

[21:29]

But to talk about this without demonizing and name calling is, I think, what this precept is pointing at. And then connected with that is not praising self at the expense of others. I'm right and they're wrong. we get into comparative thinking that way. So all situations are complicated. Our view is not ultimate truth. Ultimate truth is, in some ways, includes all truths. But there are some truths that are created that are causing harm. So how do we not be dogmatic about our views, but still speak about how we see situations of harm that are happening? I'll give you one example. This is a complicated study. And these precepts are to warn us about

[22:33]

How do we talk about this without getting into saying, I'm right and they're wrong? I've got it all right. I'm good. Those people are bad. It's not about right and wrong. It's not about good and bad. It's about what is helpful. And I think what is helpful is to be able to listen to other people's perspectives, even if we disagree. And also to speak our truths. It's very difficult now. So again, each precept is a very, very complicated study. Not some clear commandment, do it this way. No, these are koans. These are teachings to examine, to look at, help guide us to see how to look at ourselves and the world around us and how to practice with it.

[23:48]

Again, it's not that we should be neutral and that anything's okay. It's not that we should be nice. It's not that we should agree with everybody. We have to not lie. I think we have opinions as human beings. So to express that is part of not lying. But how do we do that in a way that's really radically respectful of the whole process of being human, of being human together with all beings, of not harboring ill will, of not hating people who disagree with us. We're all connected. So I'm talking about these precepts in terms of what's happening in our world today.

[25:06]

and the difficult situation we're in. These all reply personally to when we're in some personal situation with people, our neighbors or people we work with. How do we talk about somebody who's behaving in a way that's, you know, who's being a jerk without name calling, without, talking about their faults. How do we act in a way to help them to see some other way to act? How do we talk about the situation maybe with the other people we're working with without saying, oh, I'm better than that person? It's just to look at the situation and say, how do we help that person? How do we work with this? So all of these, all of these precepts are, again, they're not things that we, they're not about getting it perfect.

[26:14]

It's not like you're going to do these, you know, do these 10 and then you'll be some perfect being. Each of the, as we and our world and people around us, change and shift and situation shift, how we express these precepts will also necessarily shift. We may become angry with difference in different situations. And we may not realize we're harboring the old world. How do we use the anger, see the difficulty we have with some situation in our personal life or in something going on in the world, and not turn that into, oh, that person's, you know, whatever name we want to call them. Demonizing somebody else, it's just, it's a waste of time. And it actually, you know, we can feel it. You know, when you have a Zazen practice, you can feel it in your body when you're starting to harbor ill will, when you're starting to hold on to some resentment.

[27:20]

You know, maybe different people feel it differently. I feel it in my throat. I just, oh. And so notice that. Oh yeah, I'm really angry at that person. I'm holding on to it. Let it go. Look at how can I, Use that energy of anger. It's very energetic. Some people like to get angry because it's so energetic. They love being angry. How do you transform that into something constructive? It's possible. Look at the situation. What's the situation? How to be helpful in that situation? How to see clearly what's going on? Anyway, each of these precepts, I've talked, I've mentioned four of them particularly. And then, you know, the embracing and sustaining all beings as, you know, the background for all of it.

[28:22]

That we respect everyone, even the people we really disagree with, even the people we think are causing lots of harm in our life or in the world. How can we respect and embrace and sustain those people? Some people, maybe they need to be put in prison to stop them from causing bad harm for themselves, as well as harming others. I don't know. In my opinion, we need to reform our criminal justice system in this country a lot. But anyway, that's a whole different topic. So maybe I'll stop. I imagine that some of you have comments, questions, responses. Maybe some of you are angry at me now, that's okay. But let's talk about this.

[29:27]

How do we use these precepts? How do we respond to these precepts? Raise your hand if you have a comment or question or response, or you can go to the participants window and there's a button at the bottom for raising your hand. So anybody who has a comment or question, please feel free to respond. David Weiner has raised his hand. Okay, David, go. Thank you, David Ray. It's just interesting because this morning during my zazen, I was looking at saying the precepts over my mind and using them in the positive rather than the thou shall not attitude, but looking at them through a disciple of Buddha honors all life or respects all life rather than shall not kill.

[30:30]

And so it's just coincidental that your talk is about this. I found it kind of amusing. But I think it's what's important here, too, for me, and it's not easy. It's not easy at all, is to separate a person from action. When I was watching the debate on Wednesday, I was ready to throw something at the TV when I saw Pence just constantly talking over time and making comments and saying things that weren't true. But at the same time, how can I respect his being as a being? And not so much as a being that he's wrong, but that his actions are different. And, um, I know you mentioned talking about going, you said, maybe people should be put in prison.

[31:33]

And I almost prefer the, the old term of penitentiary because penitentiary was you were sent there to do penance. You were sent there to look inside yourself and heal yourself. It wasn't so much a punishment, as it was the time for you to do self-reflection. And that was the old term that was used. And how can I look at Donald Trump and I have a well-being list that I say every morning to people who are ill or suffering in some way, and Donald Trump is on my list. And I know that one of my teachers at school called that radical love that you you love, even those who you disagree with. And I think that's an important concept when you said not harbor ill will is to say that.

[32:34]

I still have to look at the Buddha nature that is within Donald Trump that's there. I have to disagree with his actions. I have to think that he is deluded and he's gone away from his Buddha nature. But I still have to honor what is there and disagree with his actions. But at the same time, be able to have the capacity to hold him in my heart and to hold him in my thoughts. And I just want to throw it out to the group at large. Thank you. Okay, that's, you know, maybe an extreme example. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of in our face, I guess. But I'm I'm not sure I agree with everything about how you put that. But one point is that, in terms of talking about punishment, the criminal justice system, now it is framed in terms of punishment.

[33:40]

And it used to be, once upon a time, it was at least talked about in terms of rehabilitation. and penance, as you say. So anyway, I won't respond. I'll let other people respond. So if there's anybody want to talk about that or anything else related to the precepts, you don't have to focus on that particular person. Other comments or questions or responses? Again, I see Alex's hand up. Alex, hi. Hi, Taigen. Thank you for a great talk. I'm curious about the precept of not lying. And particularly, I was reading the Lotus Sutra last night, and it's talking about the Buddha's expedient means. And there's this whole story about, you know, the kids get into the poisonous herb cabinet while the dad is away. The dad comes back, he makes them a medicine, but they won't take it. And so how does he make them take it?

[34:40]

well, he just leaves his kids and he pretends to have died. And when the kids are really sad, that's when they take the medicine. And in that text, it explicitly says that when he leaves his kids, they say that that doesn't count as a lie because it was just an expedient mean that actually helped them to take the medicine. So where do we draw the line on what is a lie here? Yeah, that's complicated. In the Lotus Sutra, there's a whole idea about skillful means, which is actually one of the paramitas or transcendent practices, which is a whole other system besides the precepts, which is very important in terms of bodhisattva practice. I think we have in our culture this idea of white lies. And so maybe it's a little bit like that. But in the Lotus Sutra, so skillful means is, that's a whole large topic, that's a separate Dharma talk. But that is about how to be helpful.

[35:45]

And how to be helpful includes that we make mistakes, that we try things that sometimes You have, so what, so I was saying that what truth is, is not an absolute, or that not lying is, that there are different aspects of truth, that ultimate truth is not the same as what we, how we see the truth, necessarily. Right view is our efforts at speaking the truth. But in terms of skillful means, the examples in the Lotus Sutra, as you were pointing out, are that sometimes one has to mislead people to get them to do something that avoids some calamity and that that's considered actually, you know, not a lie because it's done.

[36:47]

There's a number of stories about that in the Lotus Sutra, to save somebody from, to save children, actually, in most of the cases, from doing something terrible. So, yeah. And then that's considered not a lie. So the truth is what helps people. is the way that it's put in terms of skillful means. So skillful means is actually a very complicated practice. And it's also complicated and difficult. And sometimes skillful means is used in ways that are questioned as to whether, you know, it's being used in a way that's condescending or that's patronizing. So that's a whole separate issue. But yeah, I think not lying as a precept is very complicated.

[37:54]

As I said, how do we speak truth that has helped? So it's how do we speak helpfully? And I think part of the, again, I think in Western perspectives, we think about good, bad and right and wrong in some ultimate sense. And I think from Bodhisattva ethics, it's about what's helpful and what's harmful. So I'll just throw that in there. And that doesn't really resolve your question, but thank you for the question. So again, Ayshan has raised her hand and then Dylan. Okay, Ayshan first. Thank you. Thank you, Tegan. I want to just express my appreciation for your talking about these precepts now, but also to highlight how difficult it is to talk about these in a general kind of way.

[38:57]

This is, you know, the hard work of practice is that we have to take each of these precepts, you know, or concepts and apply it to our life and really sit with it. We can't really come up with a strategy or formula that will work with each of these things. What we're faced with is the need to take a precept like not harboring ill will and sitting with the ill will that we are harboring and seeing how we can personally go beyond that to benefit our situation. So I just wanted to say that it's challenging and it requires practice. There's only so much that anyone can say. Thank you. Yes, that's a totally important point. The point is to use these in specific contexts and specific situations. These are not some general rules of conduct.

[39:59]

These are to be guidelines for when something comes up, how do we apply it in a particular situation? So thank you for that. Dylan. Yeah, I just wanna let y'all know and let myself know that I have made lots of mistakes in my life. No, you're kidding. I know. And I will continue to make them for the rest of my life. Yeah, so part of Buddhist practice, which is not how maybe you may have thought of Buddhist practice is confession. So I, I, I, I'm not sure how we, we used to, at the beginning of all of our services, do the chant of all my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, born through body, speech, and mind, I now fully avow.

[41:07]

We would do that three times. And maybe we need to start doing that again at the beginning of each of our services. So David, maybe we could, David Ray, maybe we could do that at the beginning of our service after this. I think we used to do it as part of our service. And I think we need to do that again. And there are various other ways in which we talk about, Acknowledging, it's not about, you know, wearing a hair shirt or anything, but just acknowledging what Dylan just did. Just acknowledging that we make mistakes, that we are caught as karmic beings in this life. Thank you. Other comments, questions, responses to any of these precepts or anything that's been said? Can I say something? What's that? Uzo, yes please.

[42:09]

Yeah, in fact I want to, I wish to appreciate you, what I've learned, you've allowed me to be in your midst today. For a long time I have not had meditation. We used to have meditation in my own religion, but for a long time I have not had a very long meditation. So, I really appreciated that, and I think it's taking me back to my former practice. And then, your teaching, the teaching on anger, and not having ill will, I think, It's very super and it's reinforcing what I know ... how to live in Peace with every Human being. So, and not to have ill will against anybody ... show some anger, because anger, I think anger does not ... help anybody, but to change the energy, you know, when you said how you change that energy to something good, you know, into something very interesting.

[43:22]

So I wish to thank you and appreciate all of you for allowing me in and for what I learned today. Thank you so much. Thank you, Uzo, and that gives me the opportunity, Uzo's joining us for the first time, and if you would please email info at ancient dragon.org. And we can arrange for you to have meditation instruction in our tradition. So sometime either before a Sunday morning or a Monday evening, or some other time we can arrange for somebody to just give you orientation to our particular meditation. So please email info at ancient dragon.org. and it's great to have you with us. Thank you very much. You're a student at Loyola? I have a friend here, David Weiner. He's my good, very good friend. Okay. Yeah. Well, email us and we'll do a formal... Yeah, I'll do that.

[44:24]

I will, I will, I will. Great. And you're a student at Loyola? Yeah, IPS, Institute of Pastoral Studies. Yes, good. I used to teach at Loyola for a while. I taught Buddhist studies, introduction to Buddhism. So welcome. Thank you. Great. Great. Other people, comments, questions? David Ray. Thank you again for that talk. I have a question about the precepts as koans, which I heard you mention and which I've heard said before. And so I'm wondering how to think about that or practice around that. Are the precepts koans in themselves? Are the precepts like koans in respect to my life and how I live it? Or is it both of those things? Yeah. So actually, I've talked a little bit about koan practice in our tradition. And in December, there's going to be a dialogue with Stephen Hine, who's written a wonderful book about

[45:29]

Dogen's approach to koan practice, and we'll talk about that. But yeah, so to, you could sit with, you know, any one of these, or just, so for people who are preparing to take formal lay ordination and receive these precepts, I ask them to look at particular ones of these 10 one or two or three of them, and just pay attention to when they come up in everyday activity. And that's kind of like Koan practice. So the way we do Koan practice is to, if there's a formal story, like, Ordinary Mind is the Way, I think that Douglas is going to talk about that tomorrow evening, Everyday Mind is the Way, which is a traditional Koan dialogue that's in the Koan literature.

[46:36]

One can Memorize that, sit with it, or memorize parts of it. Not think about it, but let it be part of one's sitting, let it be part of one's everyday activity. And the same way with disciple of Buddha does not lie, or a disciple of Buddha does not misuse sexuality, or a disciple of Buddha does not intoxicate mind or body itself or other, each one of those is Very complicated question. And how does that come up in your everyday activity or while you're sitting? It's not to necessarily think about, but to really see when it arises. So this is like koan practice. So each one of those is not, so koans are not, in our tradition, not puzzles to solve and be finished with.

[47:40]

They are teaching stories or teaching issues to incorporate in one's practice body. and maybe one you have been sitting, practicing with, Disciple of Buddha Does Not Lie for a while, and it's become part of your practice body, then you can look at Disciple of Buddha Does Not Harbor Ill Will, or you may go back and forth. But they are actually, in addition to that, in the Rinzai Koan, curriculum, which is a formal tradition of looking at koans in particular order, the ten precepts are amongst the last of the curriculum. So they're you know, after going through like 500 traditional teaching stories or whatever it is, some large number, then amongst the last things you do is look at the 10 precepts.

[48:45]

So they are formally part of various precept systems. So it's a little bit about that. Thank you. And Doug Henron's hand was up. Hey, Doug. Hello. I had, thank you very much too. And it's really hitting home. I realized in my sitting that I'm, I'm kind of kind of waiting for the bell. And I'm also, you know, continue to be fairly scattered monkey brain. But when you mentioned, the anger issue, I'm realizing, I think that there's some deep seated stuff that I'm kind of not too aware of. And, and I'm wondering if you could comment about how to your thought about redirecting the anger. I was thinking, well, you know, maybe I should chop more wood or I should walk more and

[49:50]

And then I refer back to, well, maybe I should stop shitting on myself. But can you speak about how to redirect that frustration and anger when we're dealing with so many people that are not going along with my way of thinking these days? Ah, well, you know, there's actually several huge questions in what you just said. And I'm not going to get to all of them, maybe, but I'll, but I'll, I'll start. So waiting for the bell. Part of, a huge part of Zazen practice maybe when you first start practicing, especially, but maybe for the first, I don't know, 20 or 30 years, or for the first several lifetimes, is just to really recognize all of one's own personal, you know,

[51:07]

patterns of grasping and anger and confusion and emotional attachment or, I don't know, psychic attachment and harboring and so forth. And that's not all of Zazen, but this may be the hardest part of Zazen. That's more difficult than getting your legs into some funny position or you're sitting still. So, And if you're sitting waiting for the bell, whatever. So it sounded like you were trying to avoid that stuff or escape from that stuff, or you wanted something else to do like going and chopping wood or whatever. So part of the hardest, one of the hardest parts of Zazen is to not run away from yourself. But at the same time, you need to breathe and inhale and exhale and enjoy your inhale and enjoy your exhale and not try and jam it all in too fast.

[52:21]

You need to relax and allow yourself the time to seek to become intimate with yourself. So Dogen says, to study the way is to study the self. Now he also says right after that, to study the self is to forget the self. So people hear that and think that, oh, I have to forget myself. No, studying the self is how you forget yourself. So just look at the stuff, I'm using stuff in a technical sense. It's a technical term. Look at the stuff that comes up. And you don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to figure it out. I mean, sometimes psychotherapy is helpful and we have numbers of therapists in our sangha, but just to sit with, become really familiar with your own patterns of addiction and anger and grasping and all of that is an important part of Zazen. To get to know yourself.

[53:25]

Maybe Paul would disagree with me. Maybe this is Western sense. you in a second, Paul. But just again to respond to Doug, to allow yourself to be yourself, to feel what you feel. I've sometimes recommended the mantra, how does it feel? To feel what's going on. So while you're waiting for the bell, to really pay attention to what's going on. to pay attention to your thoughts and feelings and just what's going on, to get to know that, to feel it, not to figure it out, not to analyze it, just be there with yourself and pay attention. And it takes a while and it's gradual and not to run away from it, just to face the wall, be there, be present. And, you know, keep breathing.

[54:31]

So if you're very distracted with thoughts, that's okay. But that's the time when you can do things like counting your breath or using a mantra like, how does it feel? Or just really enjoying your breath. This is the process of Zazen, and it takes a while, and be patient with the process, and be patient with yourself. So that's, and not try and run away from it, just be there with it, pay attention. So that's what I would say in response to what you said, Doug. Paul, do you have some comments? Yes. Anyway, The precepts started out as just sort of the social rules for a community living together. It was simply how do we live together as a community and what should we do and what shouldn't we do. They're just a simple social etiquette. But Zen has become more of a teaching question of not making two, which was Suzuki Roshi's way of talking about it.

[55:43]

When we first went to Tassahara, he only made two rules. The two rules were, don't catch the fish and don't smoke marijuana. left a large area of discretion for us and we tried every, we tried to poke our noses into every possible pocket of discontent and anyway, there wasn't much left untried. The basic teaching is not to make two. For lying, not to lie to others, but not to lie to yourself either. So if you say something to yourself that you think is true, and then you say something to somebody else that's different than what you think is true, that's putting two different, that's having two different things. So if you talk to yourself the same way you talk to others, that's not lying. Even though the truth that you think you're saying may be wrong, because all truth is wrong, of course, there's no such thing as truth.

[56:45]

So we have to remember that whatever we say is a lie in that sense. But it's the only important thing is not to make two. And so with, like, one time at Tassajara, I think, I don't know whether Taigen was there or not, but our teacher, Tenjin Roshi, was leading a session at a practice period, and after we sat seven days, he said, oh, that was nice, let's do it again. So we started sitting another seven days directly afterwards, and the funny thing happened was that Zazen time and non-Zazen time became indistinguishable. You didn't think, oh, now I'm going to Zazen, or now I'm gonna have a break. All that distinction totally went away, and it became just like everyday life, and we just sort of went around, and it was no different than it was before Sashin. Sashin disappeared, basically, even though we were sitting 16 hours a day.

[57:48]

So, There's the not making of two, and then there's the other great asset to the precepts, and that's the one that Dylan brings up. It gives us a chance to fail. And failing is the most important thing we can do. The Zuka Rosha says life is one failure after another. So as long as you're failing, you're in good shape. Because that's how you learn. If you're not failing, you're not learning. So the precepts are there to be broken, basically. It's a way of learning. If you don't have a target, if you don't have a bullseye, you can't miss it. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't shoot for the bullseye, but it doesn't mean that hitting is the most important thing. The important thing is learning how to aim, learning how to steady your hand, how to focus your energy so that the bullseye comes into focus. So every time you miss, you learn something.

[58:50]

Oh, I tend to pull to the right. Oh, I tend to pull to the left. It's a learning process, and that's what we need to do. It's all about learning. As I think you were saying, Talia, and really who we are. Yes. Thank you, Paul. Well, thank you both very much. Yes. So how are we doing time-wise? Well, maybe we have time for one or two more questions or responses, if anyone has them. David Ray. Oh, Randy has a question. Hi. Thank you, Tag, for your talk. just something here about when you said, how do we speak our truth? We need to speak our truth, how not to be neutral in bodhisattva practice. And my question is, where's the fine line between doing that, doing it honestly, yet not doing any harming?

[59:52]

Because I feel really so strongly, you brought up earlier, the very painful subject of children being put in cages. And this has been going on, even though it's been kind of put on a back burner, it's not being talked about so much. And yet, all of us are there with those children in those cages. And so when someone says, and I have one particular relative who said, I support the president, not only 100%, but 110%. And so I want to say to her is then you support You are putting people in when you press that button or you fill in that absentee ballot with the president's name beside it you yourself Are putting children in cages. I mean, I feel strongly about that yet. I don't want to say that I don't want to harm but yet we have to point out what is being done and so, um I don't know. I don't know because it because we get into

[60:54]

the anger coming up or the ill will coming up or the emotions coming up. And so I'm having trouble with that because, you know, Asian touched on it a few weeks ago about the online communications and things like that and what's appropriate. So anyway, that's my question or statement. Yes. Yeah, that's a difficult one. And Paul, go ahead. I think this is, as practitioners, this is our dilemma constantly. People are deluded. People have delusions. And they're very fond of their delusions. And we come across their delusions. And some of us that have a little more sophistication and delusions are a little thinner, can see other people's delusions. But in the first place, we have to remember that we also have delusions. And the second place is, how do you say a turning word? How do you say something that helps people see it through their delusions?

[62:00]

That is the trick. And that is the trick of Buddhist teachers, and that is the trick of Buddhist practitioners, and that's the trick of Bodhisattvas. How do you say something that will make this person see something differently? How do you open their mind, their way-seeking mind, to a greater truth? So just telling them that they're full of shit, and they're bad people, and they should go off in the corner and commit suicide or cry or something, of course, doesn't help any. But if you found some way to saying, I don't know what the answer would be, but maybe they're saying, just saying, I feel sorry about the situation, or just saying something, whatever's appropriate to, as a turning word, to get them to see the situation a little more fully. So that is our, as Buddhists, that is our duty, that is our practice, that is our commitment to save all sentient beings, is to say a turning word. Find something to say that will make them feel good about themselves and also see something, a bigger truth.

[63:06]

So it's very difficult, it's a struggle constantly, and it's always something to keep in mind how to say something that will encourage people, not discourage them. Thank you, Paul. Yeah, thank you. And just to add to that, and this goes back to what Alex was talking about, about skillful means. Sometimes there's nothing to say, and you just have to pay attention and be patient and wait to see when you can say something, how you can say something that they might hear. But if you speak without respecting where they're coming from and what causes and conditions led them to feel the way they feel, you're just gonna speak with anger or with something that they'll react against. That's not gonna be helpful, as Paul was saying.

[64:08]

So it's difficult now. It's very difficult. And I know a lot of people in our sangha have this problem. relatives like that too. So how do we speak? How do we be patient? And a turning word, a skillful, say something skillful, but it has to be in the context of attention and patience and respect for that person. Even if it's in the context of, you know, in the context of wanting them to see the harm of putting children in cages. It's just so hard now. But sometimes, for me, sometimes it's, you know, there's nothing to say and just avoid conversation with some people sometimes, because there's nothing useful to be said.

[65:09]

But then to stay, ready to be patient and attentive and say something. So it's not easy, it's not easy.

[65:17]

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