We've been talking about this. And in this story, reality, something translated as reality, comes up several times. And in this story, by reality, something is met like maybe the other side of existence, or existence seen. Existence itself, but not caught by the outlook of existence.

[01:11]

This story dates from around 1000 A.D., and at that time there was a great deal of persecution of Buddhism in China. And most of the schools of Buddhism the Shingon Tantric school, which is the school of Buddhism closest to Zen, and Tendai and Kegon. All of them suffered greatly during the persecution and nearly disappeared because they were rather dependent on patronage and rituals and At least this is the Zen version of this theory. But Zen, many monasteries and temples were destroyed. Maybe Buddhism had become too attractive and convincing in China. There were too many monks, for instance.

[02:43]

Anyway, Zen survived fairly well, because you don't need much to do Zazen, and each person is his own practice place. So we made Zen people went from, they would move from one province to another depending on which one was least in an uproar. Or they would live in the mountains. And during this time was one of the strongest periods of then, when many great figures emerged. And Seppo is one of the most characteristic figures of this time of persecution, not only because of the social hardship of the time, but because of his great difficulty in practicing. As you know, he visited many teachers many times, and Tozan nine times, and thrown out by Tozan the last time.

[04:17]

So this reality seems to come out often when there is some hardship or difficulty or extremity, when we don't have time to think. But it doesn't mean that we should look for hardship. Yesterday I spoke about our fear of joy or bliss and how we interrupt that kind of experience even when it occurs in a relatively safe context. And today I'm talking about suffering. Why we suffer or have to suffer is quite clear if you're practicing. I can't say it makes sense. It's not something you're avoiding. But to look for hardship by some ascetic practices won't work.

[05:54]

The hardship you choose is not real hardship. And it's interesting, many people who take some hard way of practice are quite indulgent with themselves. So for them, our way is to be rather strict with ourselves. Our practice, all in all, is that because we are strict with ourselves, it's rather difficult. If you have some glimpse into this reality, if you aren't willing to give up, sometimes. The life that led to this reality being hidden, you'll have some pretty difficult suffering. And to give up means you have to be rather strict with yourself. So when Seppo was with Danto, he

[07:18]

goes on mountain paths. At that time, when Ganto was sleeping, he found Seppo still awake, doing Jajan, and asked him, why are you awake? Why aren't you sleeping? And Ganto said, because still something is bothering me, something is still uneasy. Maitreya said to Yudhanta, he said, that which comes in through the gate is not our family, precious, it's not an heirloom. some Chinese expression like that, I don't know exactly. But he said, there are various ways I've heard what he said expressed, and various kinds of statements. The story occurs in various forms. And one thing he supposedly said was, you must get through everything by your true nature.

[08:34]

You must get through everything by your true nature. If you think, you know, the first and second principle, you should always acknowledge the first principle. If the first and second principle are not the same, you'll have some confusion. How to express What I'm talking about, you know, I can't really say. I'm just giving you some framework information. But I'm trying to speak about how these Zen teachers made an effort to express the inexpressible.

[10:04]

how they made an effort to express the first principle. This expression is the second principle. Just form is not the second principle. But an expression of the first principle is the second principle. So, you know, there's a story that Ramana asked Buddha how to express facts which can't be expressed, and Buddha didn't say anything. This doesn't mean that if he'd said something, he would have been expressing a second principle. He was just trying to show

[11:07]

He was just standing there. Just standing there may be enough. Ludwig had a very difficult time himself with this idea of first and second principle. He couldn't understand it. And he was rather strict with himself in trying to observe first principles, as he thought it was. And his people said various things to him about the first and second principles, which he couldn't understand. One statement is about a rather well-known Zen master who lived in Nara, and he always hit the deer in Nara. Some of you have been to Nara, but he's a somewhat tame deer.

[12:28]

during rutting season are a little dangerous. We have to be a little cautious of them. They're rather small, kind of messy animals. They have a rather interesting cry, though. It's a nice noise. Anyway, this vintager always hits the deer. And he was criticized for it. But he said, if I don't get the deer, they will become too tame and hurt someone. So someone said to Zeus, kindness to animals is the first principle, hitting the deer is the second principle. And Zeus couldn't understand what that meant. And someone else told him several of the months, having a couple of few years, first principle. And the cuff is second principle. This kind of distinction is maybe rather useful.

[13:40]

Another thing is dialogue. Someone asks, what is Buddhism? And the teacher says, your name is Nirvana. Again, this kind of attempt to express something So the point in Buddhism, Zen practice, is to be ready for anything. To see, to find the first principle on everything, on each occasion, on each moment. So in Doksan,

[15:09]

in your practice here in this field. Just to express anything that's on your mind, or just to feel, well, I am just as I am, so whatever I am must be Buddhism. That's true, you know. So I'll just be what I am, and that's useful. That's true, and I think that's helpful when you're worried, to remember that. But as a... motto or practice. I'm not so sure. We should be trying to

[16:26]

express something unknown or some pressure, you know, when you practice maybe there's some pressure or some intimation that you can't hardly know yourself, you know. that intonation, by just being silent maybe, by some feeling of it while we are speaking. by some obscure statement or cry. So that is what Gangto meant by, you must get through everything by your true nature. When you encounter something, you don't try to solve it in the usual way.

[18:15]

But to solve it by practice is some mystic cry, some energy or curious reserve or effort. Without thinking, you step into it. But you need some confidence in such a situation, and some strictness with yourself, and some experience of yourself, of control, or great familiarity with your inner nature.

[19:23]

Otherwise, you can't give yourself free reign. You'll be scared. Or if you don't want to be strict with yourself, your house will be toxic. So Gandha said, it must come out from you, from your innate nature. But what this innate nature is, we can't say. But even though we can't say, still on each occasion we try to express something.

[20:27]

This effort will awaken our deep reserves, our reservoirs. And each occasion will be some opportunity for you to acknowledge yourself and to acknowledge your situation and the person, people you're with. With this kind of acknowledgement, you enter another world. This is sometimes called one-heartedness. You feel in this kind of situation some freedom, joy. Do express this.

[22:13]

And you'll find, when you make that kind of effort, that each person is actually expressing something like this. I'm reminded of when I was a student, how J. Robert Oppenheim came to me. He was a very intense man. And he'd be walking along the street, and he'd come down the street, and you could look at him. And usually when you look at someone, they have some blank look. Or if they're somebody famous, they

[23:33]

unembarrassed or rather don't want to be recognized but relieved that they are something. So there's some fun feeling, particularly with famous people. And most people are scared if you look at them. But he was rather interesting because he would look right at you with some kind of, hello there, and some piercing. And if you responded in this kind, something interesting occurred. You know why. I remember once when I practiced

[24:35]

You know, some kind of... lots of people walking and suddenly there's this strange person who winks at you. Just one eye. Rather interesting feeling, you know? And then you find out that many people have had this experience with him. Some commanding look or some lack of fear. You know, that's rather obvious, this story I just told. Actually, with each person, if you look at them, not too strongly, otherwise they get scared. That strange look so-and-so gives you. But just an ordinary look, but quite observant, quite alert. And in each person you'll see some intimation, some sense of something beyond. So without knowing it, we're actually making such an expression. For ourselves, we have to make some effort. Otherwise, we get entangled. When you see the first principle on each thing, it leads naturally to the next thing. But when you don't,

[26:10]

thing, so we feel if we're in love. We don't want to be detached. It's the opposite. But if you're in love and you're not detached, it will get rather mixed up. Actually, next step won't occur. But if you're in love and detested, somewhat detested, the next step of your love will be there. So, we call it various names, attachments, or first principles, or some intimations.

[27:47]

And practice is to be awake to that physical, bodily. So you feel some tremor. When you see something, you know, your whole body trembles. Not just your eyes looking, but the stomach looks too. In this way, you'll feel other people's stomachs. So, forgetting about thinking, perceiving, we begin to perceive with our shoulders and arms and legs and stomachs. and you feel yourself immersed in a physical, but not solid, alive kind of world.

[29:27]

To deny this feeling is to not be strict with yourself. We are usually not strict with ourselves because we fear this feeling. We can't... We're afraid of what it'll do to our plans and hopes, and we're afraid of where it will take us, because we have no sense of control. No sense of how to exist in suffering. no sense of how to exist in suffering. Live in this warm-hearted kind of practice.

[31:35]

Is there something you want to talk about this last day of session? It seems like we need control to be able to deal with such a feeling, but that feeling really hasn't been so out of control, and I find myself running from it. Yeah. Well, your thoughts are okay. It's your identification with your thoughts that causes the problem. So you have to keep withdrawing your identification from your thoughts. Thoughts are all right. You can stop them if you want, but the important thing is not the stopping of thoughts. They are just some thin vessel, you know. But if you, you know, bail out... Yeah, I know. So more practice.

[33:22]

Would you say that again? Much more, please. There could be worse thoughts. Although, if you... if you are convinced of practice, or convinced that you are going to practice. It's just something that has turned over. That's the best way, of course, to practice. It's good not to be too hard on yourself.

[35:21]

with ourselves, but in particular, not too hard on ourselves. So we recognize what we're doing as some process, if it's praising ourselves or criticizing ourselves as some need. Let it go. I think when we have... I'm not exactly answering your question. When we have some opportunity to let go or to drop a thought, we should take it. The problem is that when we have an opportunity, we don't take it. We think, oh, it's just my habit is too immense. Just refusing to eat this extra cookie this once won't do any good. I like cookies too much. I might as well have this one cookie. But one cookie, deciding once, is 50%. It's at that level we practice. So the important thing is when an opportunity occurs to drop a thought, we drop it.

[36:44]

But we don't make some big effort to chop away. We wait for the opportunity. We create opportunities for opportunities, and take them, to not do something, to let something go. Sometimes we need, anyway, getting back to this. Sometimes we need, you know, to congratulate ourselves. Because we need some encouragement. Usually we are too difficult, too tough on ourselves. And we... You know those cartoon characters, you know? And you push down here and they pop up over here? Most of us are popped up over here. Holding down over here. You understand what I mean? So this person does everything quite well, but he's always acting deep down. He knows he's pushed down over here. But he's acting and doing what he's doing and accomplishing this and that because he feels like he's bothered. So we need to let this person out.

[38:09]

So some, I think, talking about yesterday, experiencing some joy, related to that is some recognition, you know, in some way, that what we're doing is beginning to make more sense, or this actually seems of some value. Some kind of recognition of that may be helpful. But then there are all kinds of carrying it too far, congratulating ourselves, or when it becomes, you know, something, some pastry, or something, and hiding. And then, you know, you should be cautious. What I'm trying to suggest is that any thought is not so important, actually. It depends on what you invest with it. So if something comes, it comes. That's all. We don't need to smash

[39:46]

need a little self-confession for joy of thought. Do you feel there are a lot of people in San Diego who don't like to be here? I'm not going to want to get in a situation where someone who has a very negative emotion is going to come up here. And actually, I've cried hours being there. It doesn't harm to stay out of the problem. And there's more other things that you can do. And that would be a different problem. Yes. Any session?

[41:03]

Hmm. If someone has some pretty difficult time being hit, they should talk to Mark, that myself. I think sometimes we hit some people too hard. Sometimes I think people hit Pat too hard. She's rather bolder than most of us. It's not so easy to absorb and stick. But my feeling in general, with some specific person, I would be happy to talk with him, but my feeling in general is if you have some reaction to mystic, emotional reaction or feeling about it, the best thing to do is to ask for it. It's not doing any physical damage.

[42:47]

So, to me, that much difficulty or pain is not very important. Are you suffering more than the person who's being here? I remember one.

[43:57]

A girl in Uganda left the street was crying quite a bit during sashimi. I can't remember the details now. Quite this mournful crying. Afterwards, I went on most of the day, if I remember correctly, and in the evening I slept there. For Sachin and I, I was going to the bath, and Suzuki was coming from the bath. And I said something to him about her crime. What could we do about it? And he said, haven't you ever heard a baby cry? And he walked away. It's a pretty simple statement, and also it could be a little... If I hadn't been so respectful of Suzuki Yoshi, I might have been a little irritated.

[45:23]

too easy an answer. But it made me think about suffering. Not somebody being hit by a stick, but about each person's right to have their own suffering. If every time you suffer lots of people rush in to stop it, help you, or even worry about that you're suffering, Sometimes, more.

[46:33]

I have a lot of things that I can do to help. I find it very interesting to hear you speak about spiritual things and to hear you talk about the spiritual world and talk about the intellectual world. And I find it very interesting to hear you talk about it. I don't know how you found it. I remember a girl, back in those early days too, whose mother wrote her this very upset letter that she heard she was going to church three times a week and had become a religious fanatic. Because anybody who goes to church every morning and forth must be quite nuts.

[48:08]

So we get some reputation, I guess. I think the best thing is to treat it not as a religion, but more as some practice, you know, in which you're just amateur. And they should practice, too, if they want. I don't think there's any other answer to that. But also, just if your practice is good, just your practicing is enough, without your doing something or saying something. Already the fact that they react that way is making them think of their situation in another context. So instead of trying to answer their questions, it's to continue them in that new context. Do you understand what I mean? I don't know, I get a little...

[49:39]

One time someone was rather pleading with me to do some story about Zen Center, some publication about Zen Center, and how extremely important it was that everybody know about Zazen, and so we should agree how absolutely essential it was to know about Zazen, and everyone should be able to do it, and they should be able to write or film or whatever. He was really quite adamant that it was the most important thing in the world to do this, so people would know about it. And I finally couldn't resist saying that I hadn't seen him in London ever, you know. Yeah, if you don't know how to be still to this. As I expressed to someone

[51:03]

and also I've talked about it several times. You know, the basic attitude in Zen is kind of like, you know, in psychology, you either express or repress something. In Zen we don't express or repress, but we allow everything to occur, but we don't act It's another kind of Buddhist practice to act on it. That's something more subtle than actually what this story, number five, is about. But that's rather for a mature Zen practice. When I say let yourself have some experience, I'm in the kind of context that when you're in dozen, you can feel some pain and not move. The more you can have, you know, just practically speaking, if you lock yourself into expression as a mode of release or search,

[52:27]

you decrease the possibilities immensely, because you only have a certain amount of time to express things, and a certain amount of opportunity, and only certain things can be expressed. But if you don't express things, and can allow simultaneous realities or contradictory realities, you can experience many worlds. And of course, what we're talking about is expressing something that isn't possible to be expressed. So, in practice, usually the first is to learn to maintain yourself under various circumstances. And then allow some great freedom in that. And then begin to express something that you couldn't reach before. And that which you couldn't reach before is what reaches everyone and allows you some common emotion.

[53:52]

and you will feel some tension, but also, at the same time, you will feel the positive tension from your head. Could you hear what he said in the back? He said, if you find yourself with some attachment, and yet also a detachment too, should you then just get rid of the attachment? Because with detachment you can. Maybe you would die if you did that completely.

[55:41]

or should you live out that attachment? I think you live out that attachment. But, or rather, if you have some detachment, you know, you see things in a wider scale. where it doesn't make so much difference one way or the other. So you can create some possibility for that attachment to exist. But if it doesn't work, it's not so serious. With that feeling, you're much more likely to make it work. If you're too attached to making it work, you're likely to lose everything. And also, of course, we try, but we more let the intelligence of phenomena, I say, the intelligence of the events themselves, you know, there's more a kind of, as you can begin to indulge and let it happen, you know, you can begin in your life to let it happen. Things have their own intelligence.

[57:37]

Wave follows wave, wave leads wave. So, to allow that space, something can grow. And that space is only possible with some detachment. That space which lets the real event, I think I've talked too much. Please try to be strict with yourself in session and in practice. It's the only way to begin to be able to accept the hardship of others.

[59:51]

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