Good morning. Stephen Heine is coming the last Monday evening of this month to talk about koans and I'm going to be talking about Dogen's approach to koans in the seminar Saturday afternoon, the first Saturday of April. I thought I would kind of get started this morning talking about Dogen and koans and I looked through the first volume of Dogen's extensive record when he was still in Kyoto in the capital, maybe not quite in a storefront but in a city and he has many short talks in which he refers to the old teaching stories from China. So I wanted to talk about one this morning. So he says, here is a story.

[01:04]

Jingching Daofu asked a monk, what is the sound outside the gate? So we sometimes I think can hear sounds of traffic outside the storefront. Sometimes we can hear sounds in the zendo. It's pretty quiet. Sometimes we hear sounds above the ceiling. But this question, what is the sound outside the gate? So I'll come back to all of this. So this question of sounds is important. When Jingching asked a student, what is the sound outside the gate? The monk said the sound of raindrops. So it's lovely sitting in the rain. Sometimes we can hear the traffic going

[02:19]

by as the flow of water. We haven't, I don't recall sitting here in the zendo with a big rainstorm going on out there on the street. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention. Dawn has heard it. What is the sound outside the gate? The monk said the sound of raindrops. Jingching responded, living beings are upside down, diluted by self and chasing after things. So this is our situation. Living beings, sentient beings, diluted beings, are upside down, topsy-turvy, diluted by self and chasing after things. Of course this idea of a self that we have is our primary opportunity for delusion and confusion. And of course our society is built on chasing after things. When not enough people are chasing after things, the

[03:24]

economy collapses. Or when, anyway, chasing after things is our material consumerist world. It's also kind of how our human consciousness functions pretty much all the time. We're trying to move things around to get what we want or move things around to get rid of what we don't want. So the monk said that the sound outside the gate was the sound of raindrops and Jingching said living beings are upside down, diluted by self and chasing after things. The monk said, So, teacher, how about you? Jingching said I'm almost not confused by self. That's pretty wonderful. I'm almost not confused by self. So we can imagine not

[04:32]

being confused at all by self. And of course we know that we are pretty regularly confused by self. But here is this great teacher saying I'm almost not confused by self. This kind of balance point. Very poignant. The monk said what does it mean almost not confused by self? Jingching responded it is most easy to be released from the self but expressing this dropped off body is very difficult. So you may not feel that it's most easy to be released from the self but you know when we're sitting as most of us are all day today we have this chance to release. To be released from the self, from body and mind. Maybe just for a minute here or there in the course of the day or in some ways maybe the whole

[05:36]

day. Letting go of our ideas of this body and mind. So Jingching says it's most easy to be released from the self. Whether or not we agree with him we could on that part we can also agree expressing this dropped off body is very difficult. So when we have this feeling of letting go of breathing into our body and breathing into our mind and thoughts and not trying to hold on and grab hold of self. Still how do we express this dropped off body? How do we get up from our cushions

[06:43]

and clean the temple or get up from our cushions and go out into the world leave the storefront? How do we express this dropped off body? Pretty difficult. So we could hear that as what Jingching means by almost not confused by self. Maybe sitting in Zazen, how we can feel self come up. Thoughts and feelings dry throat and itch in our neck. Almost not confused by self. So it's easy to be

[07:44]

released from self when we're sitting here and that's a wonderful thing and even if you're having a period where you're you're right here some situation is churning around and you're not at all released from self and you're you know troubling yourself about something still somewhere in there there's this possibility of at least glimpsing of this possibility of oh here I am inhale exhale and yet expressing this dropped off body is very difficult. How do we express the self that has released the self? How do we express the self that's not confused by the self or almost not confused by the self? So I just want to go back over the story a little bit and then say what Dogen says about it and then give some background on this teacher because there's some

[08:47]

couple of interesting contexts for the story. So again the monk asks what is the sound outside the gate? This also has to do with not just the temple and outside the storefront but we think of an inside and outside we think of a self part of what the idea of self and the confusion by self has to do with is we think there's this self this skin bag here and now this situation on our cushion and then there's all that other stuff out there. What is the sound outside the gate? And the monk said the sound of raindrops. Well does that mean that he's has got a self and another the sounds out there the rain is falling somewhere else it's not falling on his cushion. What is the sound outside the gate? How do we see inside and outside? How do we

[09:53]

recognize yes there is a gate there is a doorway there's a there's the ancient dragon's end gate that we are named for there's a you know do you know the story about the Dragon Gate in China? Well you know that it's in a river an old old China story there's this gate deep in a river one of these huge rivers in China maybe the Yellow River anyway and when a fish swims through this gate and the bottom of the river they suddenly become a dragon. So you know are we inside the gate or outside the gate? Maybe it's okay just to be a fish near the gate. How do we part of studying the self is seeing that we do have inside and outside we think there are things that are other outside we see that there are things in the world. So expressing this dropped-off body is very difficult

[11:02]

we've been talking some about various kinds of expression. Expression through social activism, expression through art and music, expression through our agenda forms, expression through seeing each situation in our life as an opportunity a Dharmagate. So maybe that Dharmagate is not only in China and not only in that one place in the river. How do we find all things as Dharmagates? So the monk said the sound of raindrops and it's actually pretty good. The sound of raindrops is pretty wonderful when you're sitting quietly. But Zheng Xing said living beings are upside down deluded by self chasing after things. So the question was is was this sound of raindrops inside the

[12:03]

monk or was it something outside he was looking for for some relief from his squirming body and mind on his cushion. Chasing after things. There is deep subtlety or chasing after things. Maybe in some ways all of our thoughts are chasing after things. Doesn't mean we get rid of our thoughts but how do we release this deluded self. So again Zheng Xing said I'm almost not confused by self. And when the monk asked about this he says it is most easy to be released from the self but expressing this dropped off body. Very difficult. So there is a part of our practice that is learning about

[13:08]

the self. Learning to release the self. Learning to release our grasping of body and mind. Our confused self. Our grasping after things out there. There's also a part of our practice and I wouldn't I won't say that there's one and then the other. I think they you know are practically speaking intermingled where we study how do we express this possibility of release from self. How do we express this together. So this is the basic story and what Dogen says about this since completely dropping the body there is still the sound of the raindrops. Released from the self what is the sound outside the gate. As for diluting the self or not diluting the self which is difficult or which is easy I completely leave to you. So this is Dogen's style of working with these

[14:13]

stories. He asks questions about each question. He asks questions about each part. He allows us the opportunity to consider for ourselves. As for diluting the self or not diluting the self which is difficult or which is easy I completely leave to you. So is diluting the self easy? Well it's what how we've been conditioned as human beings. Maybe it's kind of difficult when we're constantly grabbing onto the self. Maybe it's actually easier to not dilute the self. Sometimes we feel not diluting the self is very difficult. Which is it? Maybe they're both easy. Maybe they're both difficult. This is a practice for us to take on if we want. How is it when we're diluting ourselves? Can we see it? Or do

[15:16]

we see you know when we let go of diluting ourselves? Oh there I was diluting myself with whatever. That was difficult. Or maybe we'll feel oh that was too easy. Or maybe we'll be not diluting the self for a while while we're shooting and then suddenly we start diluting the self with thoughts. Feelings and graspings and grasping after things. And we might realize and say oh wait a second I just started doing this and I was sitting here before for you know ten minutes or a few breaths or whatever and not diluting the self. Wow that was difficult. Or you might say oh that was easy. So Dogen is getting us to look at the texture of our experience. As for, he continues, as for chasing after things or chasing after self are they upside down or not upside down? Again

[16:17]

interesting questions. We all have experienced chasing after things. This is you know the main mode of capitalist cultures or maybe all human cultures. Chasing after things. What about chasing after self? Well you know Dogen also says to study the self. Part of our practice is that we sit and experience this confused self and maybe at some point we hear the sound of raindrops outside the gate. Which one is upside down or which one is not upside down? Maybe it's pretty easy to say chasing after things is upside down. Is there a way of chasing after things that's not based on grasping or diluting the self? Is there a way of

[17:22]

taking care of things though that maybe is not upside down? Maybe it's hard to call it that chasing after things still. When we're cleaning our temple space we're you know we're engaged with things. What is that like? Is that upside down or not upside down? And then there's chasing after self. So when we sit with some idea of oh I want to come and sit today and calm down, cool out. Or I want to sit today and get some new perspective on some situation or whatever. Maybe that's chasing after self. Maybe that's not upside down. Maybe that's exactly our practice. Anyway this teacher Jinxing said he was almost not confused by self.

[18:23]

And something about that is very appealing to me. To say I'm not confused by self, that's a little too much. If you're saying that, there's some confusion there. I'm almost not confused by self. I aspire to that. I'm almost not confused by self. And I didn't know who this guy was so I looked around and there's a couple of other stories and they're pretty interesting and in some ways kind of relevant to this story. One has to do with the sound of raindrops or the sound of water at least. One of them is an image that some of you may have heard and this is the guy who invented it. This is an image for teacher and

[19:27]

student that has to do with a hen and a chick. Do any of you know this image that the teacher is like the hen pecking on the shell of the waiting for the chick getting ready to hatch and the chick is pecking from inside and the shell is on the shell and the hen is pecking from outside. I don't know that this is actually what happens with chickens but anyway this guy, the same guy, had this idea, this image for how a teacher and student works. So once he was teaching the community and he said, in general, foot travelers must have the simultaneous breaking in and breaking out eye and must have the simultaneous breaking in and breaking out function. Only then can they be called patro monks. So the simultaneous breaking in and breaking out. Foot

[20:28]

travelers refers to, you know, these monks who wandered around China and checking out different teachers and trying to see themselves, trying to not be confused by themselves. Anyway, this simultaneous breaking in and breaking out function. Jingxin said it's like when the mother hen wants to break in the chick must break out and when the chick wants to break out the mother hen must break in. So again, this image of breaking through the shell of self, breaking through the shell of delusion, of grasping after things, and the little chick is peck, peck, peck, and the mother hen is peck, [...] pecking at the shell. And at some point, when the chick is ready, suddenly the shell just kind of opens up, the chick pops out. So this is this image of this, this, the same guy, Jingxin. He was almost not confused by self. He's the one who came up with this image, which I'd heard for a long time, didn't know who it was from. After this teaching, a monk came forward and

[21:33]

asked Jingxin, when the mother hen breaks in and the chick breaks out, from the standpoint of the teacher, what does this amount to? Jingxin said, good news. The monk asked, when the chick breaks out and the mother hen breaks in, from the standpoint of the student, what does this amount to? And Jingxin said, revealing her face. From this, we see that they did have the device of simultaneous breaking in and breaking out in Jingxin's school. So this is a story that's in the Blue Cliff Records. So from that perspective, we can look at the story again. There's the monk, Jingxin asking the monk, what's the sound outside the gate? The monk said, the sound of raindrops. And Jingxin pecks a little. He says, living beings are upside

[22:34]

down, deluded by self, chasing after things. And this monk was pretty good. He said, teacher, how about you? And Jingxin said, I'm almost not confused by self. I think if my teacher said that to me, I would just kind of stop, kind of speechless, and just kind of sit with that for a while. But this monk was ready. He said, what does it mean, almost not confused by self? And Jingxin responded, it's most easy to be released from the self. But expressing this dropped off body is very difficult. So again, our practice involves both sides, we have to reveal our face, each of us. Whether student or teacher, as the teacher, I'm also learning again and again, how can I break through and reveal my face? And for

[23:34]

each of us in our practice, we're pecking, sometimes pecking out, maybe sometimes pecking in at ourselves. How do we just let go of chasing after things and being deluded by self? So this first question that Jingxin asked the monk, what is the sound outside the gate? And the monks said, the sound of raindrops. This relates to another story about Jingxin, about Jingxin's own awakening. So Jingxin, when he was a student, came to his teacher, Chuanxia, who was a great teacher, student of Guishan, I think. And Chuanxia is the one who said the entire universe is one bright pearl. Anyway, another time, Jingxin, when he was a student, said to

[24:40]

Chuanxia, as a student first entering the monastery, I implore you for instruction about the path of entry. Good question, Jingxin. How do we enter? How do we find our path to enter into the Dharma gate, the Zen gate, the Dragon gate? How do we see our breathing and our posture and our confusion and our grasping at things and find an entryway? So Jingxin asked this to Chuanxia. Chuanxia said, do you hear the sound of water flowing downstream over the weir? Weir is a little dam in a river, a little place to slow down the river. Do you hear the sound of water flowing downstream

[25:43]

over the weir? Jingxin said, I hear it. So they must have been sitting, Zazanda must have been near a river. There was a flow. There was a sound. Jingxin said, I hear it. Chuanxia said, enter through this, and Jingxin attained some entrance. So the sound of water and sounds themselves are traditional meditation object, very recommended. Whatever the sounds, the flow of traffic. Just in the last week I've been starting to hear the tick of the Doan clock, the Doans I've been talking about. I didn't hear it for a long time. The sounds of our neighbors upstairs, the sounds of the heat going on or going off. Do you hear

[26:49]

the sound of water flowing downstream? And Jingxin said, I hear it. Chuanxia said, enter through this, and he did. Later, Wu Zufian said about this, as a result of gaining entrance, one can freely move in all directions. If you have not yet done so, don't carelessly leave here. So paying attention to the sound of the stream, probably this monk, or maybe this monk had heard about the story about his teacher, Jingxin, and when Jingxin asked him, what is the sound outside the gate? He said, sound of raindrops. So maybe he had been doing this practice of listening. And again, listening to water particularly is a

[27:50]

helpful practice, an entryway, just like the Dragon Gate is under the river. Kevin's name is to hear the stream, to hear the flow, to regard or observe or hear the flow. How do we find some way to enter? How do we find something to help us see? Are we deluded by self or grasping after things? What is our relationship to the sound of raindrops, the sound of the river flowing downstream, the sound of the traffic on Irving Park Road, the sound of a piece, you know, music somewhere? I don't think the cafe's open yet. Maybe it's from the pub

[28:53]

a few doors down, I don't know. Is that sound inside or outside? Is it outside the gate? Is it something to chase after? How do we regard that? How do we use that as an opportunity to almost not be confused by self? So what does it mean almost not confused by self? I keep coming back to this, hearing the stream of the rustling of our sitting bodies in this room. Does that mean being a little bit confused by self? A tiny bit? Maybe. I think this is

[30:07]

worth considering. Sounds of water. So we know that the self is a construction. Living beings are upside down, deluded by self, chasing after things. And I think as Westerners these days, we can see pretty well that even if we can't feel free from it, this idea of a constructed self is not so

[31:09]

difficult for us in a way. We can see habit patterns, family dynamics, the influence and effect and the ways in which all the other people and beings in our life have collaborated to help this self that we sometimes hold on to very tightly, sometimes we can let go of a little bit. And yet, even if we let go of this constructed self pretty well, even if we release our face, break through the shell, not hold on to the sound of traffic as being outside, and not hold on to it as being inside

[32:10]

either. Meet this, and breathe in this. Still, our practice, the Buddha work, is how do we express dropped-off body? How do we share? Each in our own way. So maybe there's no self, but it's hard not to say that there's no person. In some ways, each of us can be our own way of, and each of you in many ways uniquely expresses this dropped-off self. So maybe we need to be a little

[33:10]

confused by self. It's a little touching, it's a little tender, this total release, and yet there's the Buddha work to do each of us in our own way. So we're going to have some time for discussion this afternoon, but if anyone has some comment or response about the sound of raindrops, or the sound of water flowing downstream, or grasping after things, or almost not confused by self, or anything else, please feel free. in some ways, this dynamic that Jingxing is talking about, or expressing in these stories,

[34:20]

that Dogen comments on, is a kind of way to do the work of studying the self that is the heart of studying the way, and that is Sarjazan. So all these questions, all these places to look, to give our attention to, what is the sound outside the game? How is it that we are grasping after things, or not grasping after things? How is our confusion from the self upside down, or not upside down? How is our almost not being confused by the self, if we come close to that?

[35:27]

How is that not upside down? Maybe it's upside down too, I don't know. Kathy? The story about Shwanza teaching, and when a student asked where do I enter, and he said the shallows? The sound of the river flowing over the weir, the little town. That that's the place to enter? Yeah. I was thinking about that, because as kids we used to go to a park where we would play, there's a shallow rapids above the falls. That's an easy place for children to play because you feel the rush. It wasn't too strong, but it is shallow, and you could sit or you could stand. And I'm thinking of the contrast between that and being in a river where you have to swim,

[36:30]

you have to let go and go with it. Yeah. So I like his nature kind of analogy. Yeah. But it's also, so as you say, just wading in that shallow water, you know, and feeling the current on your legs. Yeah, that's good too. He's pointing out to the sound of that. I have talked about this before, but sound itself is a very traditional meditation object. So the Bodhisattva of Compassion over Deborah's head and over my head recommends hearing the sounds, listening to sound. That's a way of settling. And then there's this sound of chick and hen pecking at the shell. How does that fit into the sound of the river?

[37:30]

Kanye. Kathy was just saying, reminding me of sort of the, I think at times, different sounds, people, different people can interpret it different ways. So the traffic outside might be really annoying to somebody who's used to living in a very quiet environment. So somebody who's living in the city, it may be, may actually be unnerving to be in an environment where you don't hear that. So that idea of like sort of letting the sounds, you know, kind of go along and not, you know, when you hear noises, there's somebody walking or car going by or an ambulance or, you know, the ability to not immediately react as if it's a bad thing or, you know, a good thing. It's just a thing. Yeah. So there's entering through hearing the stream, hearing the flow of sounds. That's not grasping after things. It's possible.

[38:38]

There is the harmony of difference and sameness talks about sounds being pleasing or harsh. And at different times we can experience them either way or neutrally. So the guy who walks around upstairs sometimes, you know, I know some people have experienced that as kind of harsh, you know, distraction. Where's he going? What's he doing? Or as neutral. Oh, okay. Whatever. I don't know if any, I haven't heard anybody say that they really enjoy hearing the sounds of walking upstairs. Well, actually, no, I have for people who are used to cities and people around, you know, maybe it's reassuring or it's just okay. It's just part of the usual sounds of pecking that, you know, there are people around doing their thing. So it's not that there's one, that one response to the sound is right or wrong. They might all be topsy-turvy.

[39:39]

They might all be just right. You know, in all of our reactions, though, how do we not grasp after things? How do we almost not be confused by the self? Is that the sound outside the gate or is it part of the sounds inside the gate? Here. So I've been thinking of it as intimacy, you know, like I've been enjoying this space because the sound is, you know, amplified or bright. And I notice like the different sounds that different people make and the sound that whoever or more than one being living above us is making, you know, like I just listen to it and go, oh, you know, it's sort of like, hi, you know, or how people are moving, you know,

[40:40]

on the floor and how people touch cushions. Like, it's the way to get to know each other. Yeah. Like, I feel like that's how we're getting to know each other here. But like I'm getting to know the sound of, you know, the river of cars or the fans. You know, they're just like really nice opportunities to say hello. Yeah. Yeah. So the point is not to find some space of pristine purity where there is no sound. The sounds are part of our life. And yet, yeah, intimacy, to become intimate with the sounds and our own responses to them. Like how different people approach the altar and light it. Yes. You know, I can hear, like, you know, and most of your, you know, of your dog,

[41:45]

it's an effort to be really quiet. But still in that silence, there's this sense of somebody actually touching the charcoal. And, you know, and there's, I remember when I first went to Zen Center, my teacher, Taya, would always say, oh, did you hear that? Like, what? Like, oh, they're doing this part of service now. Or this is what's happening over there. And I'd be like, I don't hear it. Damn Zen, what's wrong with me? You know, and now, you know, I realize, like, I hear more. And as we get into the space, like I'm listening at the door going, oh, what's happening in this end of the kitchen? You know, there's something about that where, you know, now when I go to bugles, I'm like, oh yeah, that's this owl that lives over here. That's this other animal. Or even like looking at things, like not just sounds, but sights. Like, Taya used to go, did you see that deer up there on the hill? And I'm like, huh? It looks like a bunch of mouse. And but if you start to enter, I guess, I don't know what you're entering,

[42:49]

but something, it's intimacy, it seems like. So the space has been kind of fun because it's new. There's all these opportunities to go, what's happening? The way a broom is, you know, positioned, or, you know, all this stuff with assault. You know, like, I notice, like, different people when they bow, the bowing neck has a different curve to it, you know? It's kind of cool. So is it the head or the chick? Yes. So our questioning is like this pecking, whether it's hen or chick, or sometimes on our own cushion, then maybe both hen and chick. How do we peck at this? Not pushing too hard.

[43:51]

Yes. The other thing I think of when we're just talking about intimacy is the, I mean, I think there's a component of reaction might not be the right word, but how we meet that intimacy. So, you know, if you're hearing the sounds of the street and you can say, oh, I'm not going to let that bomb be, and whatever, you know, the fire truck pulls up, and the siren's going, and I'm not going to let a bomb be, because you're not paying attention to the fact that the apartment's on fire. You know, so I mean, how do you react to that? Or, you know, if somebody's moving in this end zone, and they're lost, or they need help, or, you know, you're just sitting there sort of blissed out, and like, oh, the sound of the bomb, it's okay. You know, so there's an intimacy in terms of just, you know, paying attention to how you react at every moment. Maybe the next sound we hear is something we need to do, or maybe it's something we don't need to get upset about. That's right, it's not this zombie kind of thing. I've been in centers twice when people have, once someone had a stroke, and once someone fainted and fell off with a ton. And both times, I was facing the wall,

[44:57]

and, you know, it's sort of like, I remember the first time, I just like, I got up and said, let's call 911. But it was interesting, because like, people were like, huh, what should we do? And then, you know, the other time, when somebody fainted, I realized that there were other people nearby who was going to take care of that situation. So there's different responses, I think, you know. But that it's not just like, oh, quiet, I'm listening to sound. But it's also like, oh, because that means somebody's asking for help, or something's burning in the kitchen. Is the basement flooding? Yes, absolutely. I once laid in water when I was hearing that much louder. And you heard that longer, though. So you were, you know, and as a work leader, you're getting sensitive to the situation. Good. So this is the practice of observing the stream,

[45:59]

listening to sounds.

[46:01]

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