Good morning, everyone. Welcome. So, today is another auspicious day for us in New Zealand. This afternoon, we will be doing a Jukai lay ordination ceremony, precept ceremony, for three people who are all here. So this is one of the important ceremonies in our tradition, receiving the precepts. So I want to talk about the ceremony and some of the things that are involved in it. And also, this is a landmark Jukai ceremony for Ancient Dragon. I will be performing it together with Niazan Eric Shutt, one of my Dharma successors, who is the teacher of one of the three students receiving the precepts.

[01:02]

So I want to talk about the ceremony and what it means. And we'll have some discussion. The ceremony is scheduled for two o'clock this afternoon. Everybody is welcome. You can come back online in person. So, without going into all of the procedures for the ceremony, in terms of the content, we begin with invoking and chanting the names of Buddha. So it's homage to all Buddhas in the ten directions, homage to the complete Dharma in the ten directions, homage to every Sangha in the ten directions, homage to our first teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha, who lived in what's now northeast India 2,500 years ago, homage to A. H. O. Genzenji, homage to our session of Bodhisattvas and Ancestors. So this is, in many ways, a ceremony about the lineage of Bodhisattvas and Ancestors, that we are continuing here in this time and place.

[02:12]

And homage to A. H. O. Genzenji, who brought this tradition from China to Japan and actually founded this collection of 16 precepts. And then homage to Shogakushin Udayo Sho, Suzuki Roshi, who brought this from Japan to California. In the lifetime of some of us, we are honored to have one of Suzuki Roshi's disciples, Zengyu, here with us online. And then we say homage to their presence and compassion to sustain us. So we call on the ancestors as part of the ceremony. And then we chant the names of Buddhas. So there are various Buddhas. Shakyamuni Buddha is our Buddha for this world system. But there are many Buddhas. So we chant to Vairochana Buddha, the pure Dharmakaya, the Buddha who represents the whole phenomenal universe and all other universes and universes throughout space and time.

[03:22]

And who is sometimes depicted and embodied in Japan as the great, large statues of Buddha. Like Todaiji Inara, it's huge. The ear is eight inches long. It's a beautiful, huge statue. Anyway, Vairochana is the Buddha that is all of us and everything. Everything is this Buddha. This is a way of seeing all of reality as awakened. This is very important to us. And we chant some other names. Shakyamuni Buddha, Maitreya Buddha, predicted to be a future birth and next future Buddha. The Lotus Sutra, which is kind of basic to all of Japanese Buddhism. Started with Zen and which he ran through a lot of schools. But before that, in the earlier schools. Anyway, Lotus Sutra, then Samantabhadra Bodhisattva, great activity, great practice.

[04:29]

Very important. We've been talking about it and reciting the Avatamsaka, Flower Run and Sutra, for which she is one of the most prominent Bodhisattvas. And all honored ones. This refers to the Arhats, the personally awakened ones. Great examples to show that the Bodhisattvas are great beings. And Mahaprashnakaramita, great perfection of wisdom. That is the emptiness and openness and boundlessness of all things. So I'm just going through the ceremony and talking about the different elements of the ceremony. The next part is renunciation. So I'll just read the text for the ceremony. Walking the path of Bodhisattvas is accomplished through the spirit and actuality of renunciation.

[05:34]

And I don't think in the West we think of Zen practice so much as renunciation. But yes, we're going against the grain of our consumerist culture. We're taking this wonderful, beautiful Chicago Sunday morning, or wherever you are in the world, California and New Mexico. Anyway, here we are. And we are renouncing possibility of walking around in beautiful Sunday morning to be here together, celebrating awakening. So it continues, all the Buddha ancestors of the Bodhisattva precept lineage have practiced and are still practicing renunciation of all attentions. Letting go of attentions, not being caught by attentions.

[06:36]

Of course, as karmic beings, we all have attachments, versions and things alike. But we are obsessed or caught by them. This is the spirit of renunciation. As it goes on, renunciation is an unsurpassable way of harmonizing body and mind with the Buddha way. Giving up attachments one's spirit, one is Buddha. And then in ceremony, we cut some hairs, some heads of people taking the ceremony as a symbol of that. But we give the 16 Bodhisattva precepts in our tradition.

[07:36]

First, we give in ceremony before presenting and naming 16 precepts. We present to all of the people receiving them, three things. Serene name card. So they are all going to be receiving new names. Bodhisattva names, Sazen names. Names coming from the tradition. Names chosen by yourself or yourself. And then they receive the lineage papers. So in some ways, I'm going to talk about the precepts next. But we tend to think of the ceremony in terms of these precepts as kind of ethical guidelines. And that's part of it.

[08:37]

But maybe more fundamentally, and certainly in Japanese, what they're saying historically and today, connecting with Buddha is the heart of this. Taking refuge in Buddha, but also receiving lineage, lineage cards, lineage papers, which start with Shakyamuni Buddha all the way up to the top and then go through the names of the formals and ancestors. And this is historical and semi-historical. We don't know accurately all the names in India. But there was somebody in each generation who passed this along. So to receive these precepts is to connect to a particular lineage. Going back through Suzuki Roshi, back to the sixth ancestor, back to Bodhidharma, back to Shakyamuni.

[09:44]

And at the bottom of the lineage papers, there's a red line going back up. So that each person receiving these precepts is Shakyamuni Buddha in some important sense. And also with the lineage papers, we have a circle of women ancestors who were historically not honored in the patriarchal systems of India, China, Japan, and early in the United States. But there were many women teachers and noble practitioners all through history. And we have a circle of their names, which is also part of the lineage papers that all of these people receive today. And then the third part is Uraksu. So Bo, can you show people Uraksu just as an example?

[10:49]

This is something that is sewed by each of these people receiving these precepts. And Uraksu is a sewing teacher who's helped many, many people to do this sewing. And the way it's going to be taken is bizarre for us to understand Uraksu. So this Uraksu was worn as a kind of miniature. It's a miniature of this priest, Okesha, robe that he'll get through a nation years on. And on the back of it is inscribed the new name of each person in Chinese characters, but we'll give the English meaning. And then there's a saying, and then there's my main example. So they will be wearing these Uraksus, starting today, at any Buddhist event.

[11:52]

But they will receive them for the first time in a ceremony. And there's a special chant that they will do. Break the rules of liberation. Form the steel of merit. Wrapping ourselves in Buddhist teaching and free all living beings. And then they will chant that and chant for the signers at each first course. The next part of the ceremony is something that we do all the time. It's service, the beginning of our services here. And we'll have a service after this talk and discussion and announcements. All my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion, born from the body, speech, and mind are now fully allowed. This is a wonderful chant to just acknowledge that we each do have ancient twisted karma

[12:56]

from, well, in the East Asian Buddhist view, for many lifetimes. But we can just see it as culturally from many beings, or genetically from all of our genetic ancestors, but also our cultural ancestors and our Buddha ancestors. All our ancient twisted karma. And so how do we practice this karma? Well, we acknowledge it. Sometimes some pieces of our tendencies and habits drop away, bad apples. But some of them are very deeply rooted. And the point of acknowledging our karma is to not be caught by it, to help us become familiar and intimate with our personal and collective karma, so that it doesn't control us.

[13:57]

We're not obsessed by it. We don't need to react to things based on it. And then in the ceremony, there's a part that's sort of esoteric that Nyoza will perform today. The Abhisheka chanting, the water purification. So to purify the space, to purify all of the people who are here for the ceremony. Then we get to taking refuge in the priesthoods. And there's 16 of them in our tradition. So I want to say something more about them. The first three are so important. It's the same as the three refuges. I take refuge in Buddha. I take refuge in Dharma. I take refuge in Sangha. So, you know, everybody present at these ceremonies is in some ways also taking these precepts. This is a collective ceremony.

[14:58]

These three people will formally, publicly take on. This tradition, these precepts, but we are all part of it. So to take refuge is to return home. To our deepest home. And in some ways, just I take refuge in Buddha includes all of it. The whole ceremony. You could just say I take refuge in Buddha, and that would be the whole ceremony. But we kind of elaborate on that. But taking refuge in Buddha means. Acknowledging. Appreciating. Feeling gratitude. Returning to home of Buddha. The Buddha that is each of us. On our seat now. Here in the wonderful Lincoln's Burzendo ward. With our friends online. To return to Buddha.

[16:00]

Buddha just means the awakened one. To return to awakeness. To return to wokeness. Which some politicians these days are attacking. I don't know if they think that they're attacking Buddhists or anything. Yeah, but we take refuge in this. We take refuge in being awake. It doesn't mean we don't rest and take naps and sleep at night. It means that we're present with all beings. And all aspects of the beings on our seat. To return home. To Buddha as the perfect teacher. Then we have taken refuge in Dharma and Sangha. Those are not separate from Buddha. One version of what Buddha said when he passed away was.

[17:02]

Let the Dharma be your teacher. Take refuge in Dharma. So. We have a huge body of scriptures. Commentaries stories and. Teachings that we call Dharma means the teachings. It also means truth or reality. And it's teachings about reality. How do we take refuge in reality? How do we take refuge in? What's really happening? Not in misinformation or whatever, but in what's happening in front of us. What we see and hear. And how we do that together. And togetherness is very important. That's the 3rd refuge. We take refuge in Sangha. Sangha means community, but it's the jewel of communities, community in the sense that community.

[18:09]

Works us, inspires us. And that we in turn also support and help. So we help each other as practitioners. And there's a particular Sangha like Ancient Dragons Zen Gate here in Chicago. But there's also the Sangha of all Sanghas. So we're connected with many particular Sanghas like San Francisco Zen Center. Many of us have practiced. But there's many Sanghas in the United States. Japan and China, India. Southeast Asia, Europe and Africa. So the community of. Humans, the community of not just humans, but all beings. To take care of. This planet, this world. Maybe not even just this planet, but all worlds connected to us.

[19:16]

So Sangha, we turn home to Sangha, to community. And support each other. And help each other. And this is very deep. Thich Nhat Hanh said that maybe in this century, Sangha is the rule. So how do we support each other and work together? So those are the first three of the 16 precepts. And this system of 16 was put together by Dogen in 13th century Japan, although it all goes back earlier. But the next three. To embrace and sustain right conduct. To do good, to be helpful. To embrace and sustain all good.

[20:20]

To not cause harm. And then one of the 16 that I find most important personally. I vow to embrace and sustain all beings. How do we see all beings as involved in this work, this Buddha work? This work of awakening through ourselves and all beings. All beings, all beings. So not just people in Chicago. Not just Americans. Not just white people. But Hispanic people or black people or Islamic people or whatever. All people, but not just all human beings. We embrace and sustain the trees and the rivers and the lakes. We embrace and sustain all the beautiful birdsong that we were hearing through Zazen. So that birds singing all around us to celebrate this event today.

[21:27]

And all the other animals. And flowers and plants. Then we get to the 10 pure precepts, the 10 grave precepts. And. These sound a little bit like the Ten Commandments or something like that, but they're not. They're not. Thou shalt not. They're just descriptions of what it means to live. The cycle of Buddha does not kill. They all have a positive implication too. The cycle of Buddha supports life, enlivening, vitality. The cycle of Buddha does not take what is not given. So sometimes Chastity is not stealing, but it's also about receiving what is given. Receiving gifts. Not taking what's not given. Number three, the cycle of Buddha does not misuse sexuality.

[22:39]

So in early monastic Buddhism, this was about celibacy. But for our practice as lay people and lay priests also, in our tradition, how do we not misuse sexuality? How do we not deceive others? How do we be respectful to our own and other beings' sexuality and gender? The cycle of Buddha does not lie. So that also implies supporting truth. The cycle of Buddha does not intoxicate mind, body, self or others. This is a very important one in our time. Many people in our culture are addicted. To alcohol or drugs or many other things. How do we support awareness rather than intoxication?

[23:43]

You know, the Dharma itself is a practice. Buddhism can be intoxicated at times. But we also just approach it as something that we appreciate and that we share. So how to not intoxicate mind, body, self or others? And we have a recovery group that meets online Tuesday evenings. From a Buddhist perspective, but similar to various other recovery groups. So we help each other to acknowledge and find ways to not be caught by intoxication. The cycle of Buddha does not speak a false of others. It's the sixth one. And this is kind of subtle, I think. It's not that we should never talk about difficulties in the world, in our society, in our lives.

[24:48]

But we don't indulge in name calling or hate speech or finding fault. We can talk about the issues, the problems that we see around us. In fact, it's important to do so. But how do we do so without thinking of fault finding? All of us, from whatever opinion. There are politicians in the world now who seem to be promoting the policy of cruelty. Others are promoting caring. And we can oppose cruelty without name calling. So to not speak of faults in others, at the same time that we do address problems and suffering in the world.

[25:52]

The next one is sort of related. The cycle of Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. So this is, you know, especially for people who are taking refuge and receiving precepts. It's possible for people who are practicing sincerely, it's possible to think, oh great, I'm practicing, I've received the precepts, wow. We're doing this together with all beings. So. This can be very subtle how we, you know, think of ourselves as. Somehow, I don't know what more better whatever than others, but we're all together. The next person to cycle of Buddha is not possessive of anything. Some traditions, this disciple of Buddha is not possessive of anything, even the Dharma.

[26:54]

So whatever we have understood of spirituality, of truth, of caring, of community, of awareness. Connecting to reality. We don't hold on to that. It's not personal, it's not just yours. We do this together really, really deeply. It's something that couldn't happen in our collective space and time. So that's invoking the Bodhisattva ancestors to see that this is something that has been, this tradition and this ceremony and these practices have been sustained and maintained generation after generation. From India to China to Japan, South Asia, California, Chicago, and throughout the world.

[27:57]

So we, we don't do this just for ourselves. Then the ninth of these precepts is one of the precepts that seems to be most lively for people. Disciple of Buddha does not harbor ill will. This is the precept about anger. So all of us, of course, at times, there are things we don't like. We may get angry. We may feel anger. We may feel negative feelings. What's important is to not harbor ill will, to not hold on to anger, to not make it a harbor where we develop hate speech and all of the terrible things that happen when there's prejudice against people just because of anger. What country they're in or what the color of their skin is or what religion they are of. We don't harbor ill will.

[29:03]

And personally, when we're having trouble with someone, family member, a co-worker, you may feel some negativity. But how do we not hold on to that? How do we not make that a harbor? This is very subtle. So when those negative feelings of anger arises, the practice, and I want to talk more about this in the near future, the practice is not to hold on to that, not to make a big deal of that, but to actually look at what is going on, to really use that as an opportunity to examine. Our own heartlines and to see what can we do to help in a particular situation, whether it's a societal situation or a personal situation with somebody, a co-worker, for example, who is giving us a hard time, giving other people around them a hard time.

[30:13]

How do we use this awareness helpfully? And it's not easy. It's not, you know, sometimes it takes patience and skillful means and attention to the situation. But again, the point is, the precept is to not harbor, to not hold on to ill will. Finally, the disciple of Buddha does not disparage the three treasures of Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha. So that's, we could do that in various subtle ways. You know, this is really true or whatever. This person in our community is just being a bastard. Instead of seeing the community as something that is a living organism and the whole world as a collective organism. So, I think we tend to, there's more to the ceremony that will happen this afternoon.

[31:19]

In terms of acknowledging the ceremony itself and the people involved, not just the three people receiving the precepts, and not just Nyozana and I are performing the ceremony. But all of us, many of us who have helped to make this possible. So, this is, for our particular Sangha, for Ancient Dragon Zen Gate, this is really a wonderful major event. Some of you remember our temple on Irving Park Road that we occupied, went to for 15 years. Maybe most of you, many of you were there. It's a wonderful space. Now we have this wonderful Lincoln Square Center.

[32:21]

It's smaller, but it's allowing us to perform the ceremony. And we've just, in the last couple of months, the practice period, two months. We've returned since 2018. We did that three days a Sheen, the first multi-day sitting since 2019. So, the whole world has suffered this pandemic. And COVID is so happening. It's not that it's finished, but it's abated enough so that we are now resuming the practice. This is really wonderful. And part of that is doing the ceremony today, this afternoon. And as some of you know, we're also, with all of this happening, we're also on the verge of purchasing a building not so far from here.

[33:53]

And on Lincoln Avenue, that will be a long-term home for us all. There's a lot of work to do, and it's not set completely yet, but almost. So, it's an interesting rich time. And the ceremony today encourages us to connect with the richness of time. With Suzuki Roshi, in his 60s and early 70s in San Francisco. With Dogen and his successors, 13th century Japan. With Bodhidharma coming from China to Japan. Coming from India to China. Anyway, and with all the women ancestors also who were part of helping all of that. So, Sangha is a strange creature.

[34:58]

Sangha is alive. And Sangha extends through space, so many beings have been part of this Sangha. Either online or at Earthen Park Road or here. And also, many beings are connecting with us in time. And each one of us has a common Sangha. All of the people you've ever known are part of what's happening on your seat right now. So, this is a very rich, wonderful time. And, of course, all the people, not just all the people you've known, your great grandmothers, your fourth grade teachers, you know, anyone. So, today's a day of celebration.

[36:00]

Today is a day to enjoy. And we will. Activate the ceremony this afternoon. Everyone is welcome. 2 o'clock. Here in this little room or online. Maybe that's enough for me to say. Questions about any part of the ceremony? About anything about the precepts? About the lineage? About Buddha? Dharma? Sangha? Comments, responses, questions? Online or here? What a wonderful way to present it. Please feel free. Yes, I'm back. Is this your first time here? Great. Welcome. That's very auspicious for us. What is your name?

[37:13]

Rob. Hi, Rob. Can you talk a little bit more about Sangha? Yeah. Sangha is very important. You know, through the history, and I was talking about India and China, Japan, there are great, great teachers in China who never had more than eight people in the Sangha. So it's not about how many. But Sangha is about the richness of our lives. There are a lot of people, there are people here, I see online, who have practiced for a long time on their own. And then came to practice with an organized group. And it helps. It's possible for people to sit at home by themselves and do the practice. But to do it together with others is part of the spirit of this. So Sangha, again, is not just people in this particular organization.

[38:19]

We have 12 or 15 people in our Sangha who are chaplains. One or two people here today who take care of people who are ill or dying in hospitals and hospitals, for example. So this is part of the spirit of Sangha, is that we are supporting each other to do this practice. But also, and this Sangha particularly, I really am so grateful to be part of Ancient Dragon Zen Gate Sangha. Because there are many people here who are doing many wonderful activities in the world. Teaching in grade school, teaching in graduate school, working with computers, being therapists. Many things, being chaplains, being social workers, martial arts teachers.

[39:21]

All kinds of helpful things in the world. And that emanates out of taking refuge in Sangha. To be together with others doing this practice for the sake of awakening for all beings. And this takes time sometimes. So is this your first time coming to any organized Zen Buddhist group? No, okay, so you've been involved with other Sanghas. But you're welcome here. And actually, one of the things I really deeply appreciate about this Sangha is that many people here have practiced in other Buddhist or non-Buddhist traditions. We have an Episcopal minister who has been on our board who practiced with his Zen teacher who was an Episcopal minister in the Southwest, for example. And we have people here who practice Rinzai Zen. We have people here who practice Tibetan Buddhism. It's having this width of breadth of background enriches all of us.

[40:29]

So I hope you will. So today's kind of a special day. Rob, I hope you will come again, check the website schedule and join us. So part of Sangha is just being open and trying to be welcoming. Sometimes it's challenging in our world. But how do we welcome anyone, an English audience? How do we welcome the various sitting all around us as well? So that's a little bit about Sangha. Do you have a follow-up question, Rob? Damon online has a question or comment. Thank you, Taigen. The precepts that I understand that you offer in your tradition are the kind of the traditional kind of short version. And in the community I've been practicing in lately, here locally are the so-called Plum Village practicing in the tradition of Thich Nhat Hanh.

[41:40]

They have something called five mindfulness trainings that we recite once a month. And when you take these, it's sort of their version of the five precepts. And they're kind of really put a lot of flesh on the original precepts. For example, the third precept regarding sexual conduct. The original precept is kind of skimpy. And so they sort of added on quite a bit that gives a little bit more guidance and fleshes out the original precept. Could you talk a little bit about why they would do that? Well, first of all, I very much respect Thich Nhat Hanh's order of inner being and his precepts of inner being. And actually for all the people who take away ordination to Thich Nhat Hanh with me, I give them copies of the order of inner being, their precepts, and use them as commentary.

[42:49]

So I would not say that our 16 precepts are a skimpy version of all the precepts. There are the earlier precepts, the Vinaya precepts from the early Buddhist tradition, which is the monastic precepts. And that's in the early, well, Theravada and other traditions that emphasized a practice of personal liberation. So, and that's a very noble practice, personally liberating, awakening, and developing oneself. And, you know, in the Lotus Sutra, that's included as part of the Bodhisattva work, because it inspires some people. So the point is that all of these practices we do together, and, you know, we've talked about these precepts more.

[43:57]

But one of the things I mentioned and want to stress is, it's not just about following some ethical guidelines, although that is part of it. But it is this deep ceremonial connection, personal connection to everything, to all Buddhas in space and time, to all awakened beings. So, yeah, I think each of these precepts one can speak about a lot, and I have done so. If you look on our website for the podcast or type in any one of these precepts, you may find that he ever talks about it. Anyway, I appreciate your comments. And yes, and I, you know, I feel like, you know, we've, I've practiced since I started personally practicing Buddhism.

[45:04]

I was fortunate enough to connect with a Japanese Soto Zen priest back in New York a long, long time ago. And so I've always been grounded in Soto Zen. And at the same time, I've also partaken of practices of other traditions and appreciate them. So I think, as I was saying, we're informed by all of the different traditions of spirituality awakening. So it's not about, you know, competing whose, whose, whose lineage is better or something. We're all part of this mahasabha of awakened beings. So thank you very much for your presence and comments. Other comments or questions about any part of this? Oh, Bob, hi.

[46:06]

Hi. I've been thinking about, you know, the precepts a little bit recently and wondering, I guess my question has to do with like, you know, how do you practice these without falling into like righteousness about them, you know, which is alienating to, I think, to people. It's like, you know, how do you practice awakening and then sort of have this also desire for others to awaken without pushing, you know, and without trying to control other people's behavior? Because you, I can see the benefit, for example, of like, not speaking ill of other people or not gossiping about other people. But, you know, I find myself in that situation sometimes where other people are and you're, you don't want to be like, you know, I'm a Zen Buddhist. I'm not cool with that happening right now. So, yeah. How not to like, well, yeah.

[47:06]

So that's the question. How not to be too sort of righteous about them? Good. So there's one of the 10 precepts is exactly about that. The cycle of Buddha does not praise self at the expense of others. And you don't do it either. So, you know, we have various systems. We have the eightfold path. We have the six or 10 parameters that various for the horrors. We have various huge numbers of teachings and Buddha Dharma. The teachings, the parameters, transcendent practices are very helpful. I find most all of them. And, you know, the practice of patience. So we may see somebody causing harm. We may see harm and cruelty happening in the world around us. And instead of just name-calling, well, the people who are promoting that,

[48:09]

how do we actually, you know, one of the, one of the, later on skillful means, how do we practice skillful? This is a lifelong study. And it means patience, which also can be tested as tolerance. We all have shortcomings. We all have things. We, you know, we all have limitations of what we could see and appreciate and enact. So maybe some people, we might think that some people shortcomings are much greater than ours, but it's really the same situation. How can we help? And so to try and argue with somebody to persuade them to be caring and helpful rather than cruel, you know, based on their situation, they may not see it that way. It may not be so skillful or helpful to try and get into that kind of discussion.

[49:13]

So patience, tolerance is intention. And our practice of awakening is to pay attention to whatever is happening. And so if we see somebody causing harm, of course, if there's something physically you can do to intercede to stop that harm, you know, pulling somebody off in front of traffic or whatever, you know, we try and do that when we can. But how do we really physically study? The practice of skillful means is to really pay attention to our, not just to the situation out there with the people who we see doing harm, but to ourselves and our prejudices about things. And then how do we see something that might be helpful to say or do at some point?

[50:15]

And we make mistakes. And it's important to make mistakes. We learn. But we make the effort to pay attention and then to be helpful. So, you know, what you're talking about is huge. It's, you know, a huge problem in our world today. And it's easy to take sides and to see these are the bad guys. But, you know, what led there, what was their background that led them to that? What are their fears and so forth? But that doesn't mean we say, oh, yeah, go ahead and murder these people or support these people or whatever. We try and act to be helpful. But it's always, you know, a central process. And again, so these ethical considerations are very important.

[51:20]

But also, again, the ceremony is about just, okay, we are expressing truth. Yes, Paula. In light of that, what Bo is bringing up is I think Buddhist practice encourages us to stay engaged. Yes. And that's a big part of it. Like, how do we stay engaged? The precepts kind of help give us guidelines on how to stay engaged. But like in just practical ways, also with skillful means to still be part of that conversation where everyone might be trash talking somebody. But then maybe skillfully bring up some positive interaction you might have had with that person instead of trying to add fuel to the fire or completely check out. Well, I don't do that. So I'm going to pretend I'm not even here. And that's where the skillful means comes in and enticing like you mentioned, like maybe patience and kind speech and compassion. Like, how can I find something positive to say here that doesn't make me point fingers at everyone who's negative?

[52:25]

And that, of course, takes a lifetime, I think, to develop skills like that. And sometimes you never do. Yeah, it's a process. It's a lifelong process. But also sometimes, and I'll call on you in a second, Paul, but sometimes there's nothing to do. So it might look like somebody's checking out, but they actually might be paying close attention and waiting for an opportunity to do something positive. Which would be active listening. Active listening, yes, exactly. You know, I'm all about Samantha Padre, so I'm always coming at it from that angle. Me too. You're all about what? Samantha Padre, the Bodhisattva of Great Activity. So a plug for those who don't know about the different Bodhisattvas,

[53:28]

there's a book I did called Spaces of Compassion. And Samantha Padre has his own chapter. And other Bodhisattvas have their own chapter. Yes, so Jan, I'll call on you, but Paul had his hands up first. Thank you. Basically, in our tradition, the precepts are all about not making two, not making good and bad. So in the Zen tradition, there's no way to break the precepts. You cannot break the precepts, because that would be making the good and the bad. But following the precepts creates the land in which Buddhas appear. And if you want to save all sentient beings, if you vow to save all sentient beings, which is what taking the precepts is about, then you are vowing to live in a land where Buddhas will appear.

[54:30]

But that doesn't mean that there's any way— Can you say that last part again, please? What's that? I didn't hear the last part. Could you say that again, please? You vow to live in a land where Buddhas will appear. But that doesn't mean that there's a way that you can break the precepts, that you can go against the precepts. It's a unity. You cannot—they're all one. That is the basic of our teaching, as you know from the class we've been doing with Rev. Anyway, that was Suzuki Roshi's teaching. The only precept is not to make two. So that's the important understanding. So it's not like there's no good guys and no bad guys. There's no yes and no. But following the precepts allows Buddhas to appear in this world. Thank you, Suzuki. Chen? I'm very troubled by Thich Nhat Hanh. You know, he was in Vietnam during the war,

[55:34]

and he saw terrible things. He saw his people being— Please speak loudly to the people online. I was talking to Thich Nhat Hanh, and he is Vietnamese by origin, and still going through the Vietnam War, and really had a lot of experiences that most of us would avoid. And it's really almost—it is truly amazing that he came through these experiences as he did and became a great teacher for the Western world. I have to say that. But the first thing that starts out is, this is the practice of one who is wise. And I think right away, well, that counts me out.

[56:36]

I'm not going to read this. And then this is how you find your friends. And then I think, well, my friends don't qualify here. And, you know, I'm just stopped by the first sentence of most of the things that Thich Nhat Hanh wrote. And not that I have really studied it, but I find his approach, in spite of the admiration you have for what he's been through and how he turned out, he's a very, very difficult person to meet. Well, thank you for that testimony. I enjoyed—I've done a couple of longer practices. I've never been to Plum Village, and a friend of Thich Nhat Hanh's wants to respond.

[57:40]

You know, this is why Buddhism includes many, many teachings and many, many traditions. And if Thich Nhat Hanh's tradition doesn't inspire you, it's fine. I'm glad you're here to insert those in. There are, you know, this is the heart of skillful means, which we were just talking about. That the Bodhisattva of Compassion, Panzeyavada Balakideshvara, who the images are up there, she is about studying different beings and seeing the different contexts of how people respond to the teaching. And so there are many different traditions, many different lineages, many different teachings. And some people respond to some teachings or some traditions more fully than others.

[58:47]

And that's because we're all different. So skillful means is if that's a tradition that doesn't appeal to you, fine. Don't worry about it. You don't have to have a... I've never heard you talk about this before. So obviously you don't have a vendetta against Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings. But, you know, it doesn't appeal to you. It's fine. And, you know, I could get into the particulars of each of those sayings. I forget the one you said it starts out with. No, this is not practices. Remember, this is the something of one who is wise. Yeah. So that's it. So that's the way of talking about Shakyamuni Buddha as the wise one. So taking refuge in Buddha is to take refuge in the awakened one who is wise. And all of the different permutations of that historically in the last 25 years,

[59:48]

you know, have different flavors. And that's exactly right. So we can talk about emptiness, which a lot of people like, and we can talk about suchness, which other people like. They're, you know, two sides of the same coin. So, yeah, we don't have to... So the idea of Sangha and Mahasangha is just to respect the different traditions and that something that don't appeal to you may be good for some other people. And, you know, so you don't have to take this gospel. You know, compared to Christian gospels, what is it? I'm sorry, I'm not a Christian. Jesus taught for 30 years or something like that? Yeah, Buddha taught for like 40 years. So there's just all these different flavors of what the Buddha taught as an awakened practice.

[60:51]

So, you know, you can enjoy what is helpful to you. So anything that's helpful, whether it's Buddhist or non-Buddhist or, you know, all the other teachings or practices or awarenesses in our world today, if it's helpful, great. So did you want to respond on behalf of Thich Nhat Hanh? Far from me to do so. But I just wanted to say that I'm grateful for our colleagues' forthrightness. I have to confess that there are times that such reactions well up in me as well. And that I think I'm going to take this opportunity to just kind of when they do well up again, just try to be observant, find out more about where they're coming from and take them as an opportunity for a teaching inside myself and so forth.

[61:56]

So, again, thanks again to our colleague for talking about this. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for being grateful. So, Les, we're getting close to the end. Wait, please. Thich Nhat Hanh, I think you're more wise than maybe you give yourself credit for. Your comments always surprise me. And they always manage to teach me a little bit of Dharma in a way that I never would have expected. So thank you for that. And please be kind to yourself. Amen. So, Aisha, last word. I just wanted to say that I think that an attitude that's helpful when we think about how we hold and practice the precepts is humility, because we can never practice the precepts perfectly. So when we think about, you know, how somebody else isn't practicing them or isn't practicing them the way that we might want them to,

[62:58]

it maybe just helps to remember that we are all doing this imperfectly, with one mistake after another. And we're all connected, as Andy said, not two. We're all connected. So thank you all very much. You're all welcome to come to this ceremony this afternoon.

[63:20]

@Transcribed_v004ct2
@Text_v005
@Score_88.5