Good morning, everyone. Today we are continuing our practice commitment period study of the Malakirti Sutra on one of my favorite chapters, Chapter 6, The Inconceivable Liberation. But first I must acknowledge, I would like to acknowledge that this is an auspicious day. Aside from Ramadan and Passover and Easter Sunday, we are celebrating Buddha's birthday. So the traditional date of celebrating that in East Asia is April 8th and so we will have as our service, after Dharma talk, the inconceivable lifespan of Buddha to go with the inconceivable liberation. And during that chant, people in the room will bathe the baby Buddha who is sitting

[01:05]

in front of our altar. So this is a traditional way of celebrating Buddha's birth. So this chapter on inconceivable liberation is what's my favorite in the whole Sutra, one of them, certainly. And I don't imagine I'm going to completely cover it today, so at least some of the chapters in the Sutra we will, some of the themes we will talk about during the practice period more than once. So this begins in a very humorous name, as is part of the Sutra, many parts of the Sutra. So the disciples of Bodhisattvas and so forth have been, in the previous chapter, the Constellation

[02:08]

of the Invalid, which Douglas will be speaking about tomorrow evening, many people, disciples and deities and mystical beings, as well as Bodhisattvas, enter the room of Vinodakirti to check to, at the Buddha's request, to check with him about his illness. And partly we'll see in the Sutra, it's, so Vinodakirti is, we're not taking a historical figure, but when this Sutra was introduced to China, it became very popular because it's about a totally awakened layperson, not the usual monastics. And the Emperor of China sent an emissary to India to find the room of Vinodakirti to

[03:17]

see how large it was. And so this Chinese person went to India, to the city of Vaishali, and asked after, where was the house of Vinodakirti? And of course, the Indian people sort of giggled and whatever, because they knew that it wasn't a historical thing, but they sent him to a space, and he measured the room there, where all of the drama that we're going to talk about today, and in ensuing chapters, occurred. And they found that it was 10 feet by 10 feet, Hojo in Sino-Japanese. And so that is the name for the abbot's quarters in all of Zen, in all of Chan and Zen. And it's also the name given to the abbots of Zen temples, Hojo-San in Japanese.

[04:18]

So when I was in Japan, the abbots of places where I was practicing were dressed as Hojo-San, because of Vinodakirti's room. So what happens is that it starts off, Thereupon the Venerable Shariputra, one of the 10 great disciples of the Buddha, who figures prominently as a kind of a scapegoat or whatever in the sutras, had the thought, there's not even a single chair in this house. Who are these disciples of Bodhisattvas? Where are they going to sit? Of course, Vinodakirti read the thoughts of the Venerable Shariputra and said, Reverend Shariputra, did you come here for the sake of the Dharma, or did you come here for the sake of a chair? Shariputra replied, of course, he came for the sake of the Dharma,

[05:19]

not for the sake of a chair, Vinodakirti continued, Reverend Shariputra, he who is invested in the Dharma is not interested in his own body, much less in a chair. Reverend Shariputra, he who is interested in the Dharma, has no interest in matter, sensation, intellect, motivation, or consciousness. He has no interest in these aggregates or in the elements of the sense medium. Interested in the Dharma, he has no interest in the realm of desire, the realm of form or matter, or the realm of the formless realm. These are described as three aspects of reality. Interested in the Dharma, he is not interested in attachment to the Buddha, attachment to the Dharma, or attachment to the Sangha. Reverend Shariputra, Vinodakirti continues, he who is interested in the Dharma is not interested in recognizing suffering,

[06:19]

abandoning the subordination, realizing the cessation, or practicing the path, noble truth, of course. Why? Vinodakirti continues, the Dharma is ultimately without formulation and without verbalization. So, he goes on vilifying Shariputra for his concern for discomfort and for having a good chair. Well, he says, Reverend Shariputra, the Dharma is calm and peaceful. Those who are engaged in production and destruction are not interested in the Dharma, are not interested in solitude, but are interested in production and destruction. He goes on like this. Furthermore, the Dharma is without taint and free of defilement. He was attached to anything, even to liberation. He is not interested in the Dharma, but is interested in the taint of desire. The Dharma is not an object.

[07:21]

Key statement. He who pursues objects is not interested in the Dharma, but is interested in objects. And he goes on like this. He who seeks to associate with the Dharma is not interested in the Dharma, but is interested in association. So, I'm not reading all of this, but he ends up saying, so Reverend Shariputra, if you are interested in the Dharma, you should take no interest in anything. That's quite a statement. Take no interest in anything. It's a German translation. I would say this means to not attach to anything, to not be invested in anything, to not seek the Dharma in some thing or object. And he makes this clear as a concern. And then Vimalakirti, this great awakened white person, says to the crown prince of wisdom,

[08:25]

Manjushri, who was the person who accepted Buddha's challenge to go and speak with Vimalakirti. Everybody else was afraid of Vimalakirti. So, Vimalakirti says to Manjushri, Manjushri, you have already been in innumerable hundreds of thousands of Buddha fields throughout the universe, throughout the universes of the ten directions. In which Buddha field did you see the best lion thrones with the finest qualities? So, we talked about in the beginning of the sutra that when a Buddha awakens, there is manifested around them a Buddha field. And there are many Buddha fields in all ten directions and beyond. Innumerable, countless Buddha fields. Friday night, reading the flower in a sutra, we came to a chapter where

[09:27]

there are amazing numbers and numbers and numbers. David Ray, what was the largest number of you? Well, it was maybe 14 trillion or something like, no, 14 quadrillion, quintillion, maybe. We're about halfway through. But then it goes on to, what, nine millions? That's what Matt Strikes said. Yeah, okay. Anyway, so there are all these Buddha fields all around. And Manjushri, the Crown Prince of Wisdom has been to all of them. He knows what's happening. He goes everywhere to spread wisdom. Manjushri replies, Oh, noble sir, the Malakirti, if one crosses the Buddha fields in the east, which are more numerous than in all the grains of the sand of 32 Banji's rivers, one will discover a universe called Merudvaja, which is roughly Mount Sumeru, Meru, the lamp.

[10:31]

There dwells a Tathagata, a Buddha called Merukaripataja, Sumeru's lamp king. His body measures 8,400,000 leagues in height, and the height of his crown is 6,800,000 leagues. The Bodhisattvas there are 4,200,000 leagues tall, and their own thrones are 3,400,000 leagues high. Noble sir, the finest and most superb thrones exist in that universe, Merudvaja, which is the Buddha field of the Tathagata, the Buddha, Merukaripataja. Now he's talking about leagues. The Buddha's body is 8,400,000 leagues. As I recall, a league is

[11:32]

defined by the distance an army can march in one day. So that's one league. So anyway, that, these thrones are really big. At that moment, from all acuity, having focused himself in concentration, in samadhi, performed a miraculous feat such that the lord to top the Merukaripataja in his universe, in his Buddha field, sent to this universe 3,200,000 thrones. These thrones were so tall, spacious, and beautiful that the Bodhisattvas, the great disciples, the Brahmins, all the deities and magical figures who were there listening in the room to Nirmala Kirti and Manjushri, had never before seen the like. The thrones descended from the sky and came to rest in this room of the Manjushri. The 3,200,000 thrones arranged themselves without

[12:41]

crowding and the house seemed to enlarge itself accordingly. So we're entering into the realm of the inconceivable here. The great city of Vaisala did not become obscured. Neither did the land of Jambudvipa. Jambudvipa is the main traditional Indian Buddhist cosmology from the southern continent. So we might think of that as India, but that's actually our world. The world did not interfere with the world of four continents. Everything appeared just as it was before. And Nirmala Kirti said to the young prince Manjushri, Manjushri, let the Bodhisattvas be seated on these thrones, having transformed their bodies to a suitable size. So all of this is happening in this 10-foot square room of Nirmala Kirti's where he's lying on his sick bed. But the beginner Bodhisattvas were not able to transform themselves to sit upon the thrones.

[13:49]

Nirmala Kirti taught these beginner Bodhisattvas a teaching that enabled them to attain five supernologies. And having attained them, they transformed their bodies to a height of 4,200,000 leaves and sat upon the thrones. But still, the great disciples were not able to seat themselves. So in a little bit, Nirmala Kirti instructed these disciples who were told with consternation to sit on these thrones, bow down to the Tathagata Mara Prajna, and you will be able to take your seat. The great disciples bowed down to this Buddha and were seated upon the thrones. And Charakurti, one of the noble Asuras, is astonished that these thousands of pharaohs so big and high can enter into such a small house

[14:51]

as yours. Nirmala Kirti replied, Reverend Shariputra, for the Tathagata and the Bodhisattvas, there is a liberation called inconceivable. So this is the teaching I want to talk about, this inconceivable liberation. The Bodhisattva who lives in it, the inconceivable liberation, can put the king of mountains, Matsumura, which is so high, so great, so noble, so vast, into a mustard seed. They can perform this feat without enlarging the mustard seed and without shrinking Matsumura. I don't know if Matsumura was supposed to be a name for Mount Everest, but there are many high mountains in the Long Islands. The deities of the assembly, the four kings of the heavens, do not even know where they are. Only those beings

[15:52]

who are destined to be disciplined by miracles see and understand the putting of the king of mountains, Matsumura, into this mustard seed. That, Reverend Shariputra, is an entrance to the domain of the inconceivable liberation of the Bodhisattvas. So this variability of space and of dimension, of size, is one aspect of this inconceivable liberation that the Vālkyārtha teaches. There are elements of this in other sutras. Certainly, when we get to the final book or chapter and the culmination of that, in the Flower Arrow Sutra, which we do a monthly reading on the first Friday of each month, everyone is

[16:53]

welcome, we will see another example of this, but our idea of size is just an idea. This actually also applies to time, we will get to that, but the Vālkyārtha is giving this teaching about going beyond our usual conventional idea of what space is. And this brings up my favorite Buddhist movie, and I don't want to give away any spoilers, so has anyone not seen the movie Men in Black? Oh, Paula hasn't seen it. Well, as a Star Trek fan, you should really see it.

[17:55]

Oh, Men in Black, it's with, what's his name, Will Smith, who was disgraced at one of the events. He disgraced himself, yes. But anyway, Men in Black is, especially, I don't want to give away any spoilers, you have to watch until the end, because especially at the end, there's a teaching about this inconceivable evolution and the inconceivability of spatial dimensions, so I really love that movie. Just because of the inconceivable evolution. There are a lot of things in that movie besides the antinomy that messes away in this part of Buddhist teaching. Anyway, the Vālkyārtha goes on to say

[19:01]

Bodhisattva, who is informed by this inconceivable evolution, can pick up with his right hand, I don't know if some of you are left-handed. Anybody here left-handed? I do. Well, maybe they could do the same with their left hand, but the sutra talks about the right hand. So Bodhisattva could pick up with their right hand this billion-world galactic universe. The whole universe. This universe, of course, there are many, but they could pick it up as if it were a potter's wheel and spinning around, throw it beyond universes as numerous as the sands of the Ganges. Without the living beings there and knowing their motion or its origin, and he can then catch it and put it back in place. Boomerang, Germanic English, or this universe, anyway, I don't have to talk about this,

[20:05]

because it's just wild. This is unsettling our usual conceptions of how to conceive reality. So this Bodhisattva can catch it and put it back in its place without the living beings suspecting they're coming and going, and yet the whole operation is visible. Furthermore, Shariputra, there are beings who become disciplined after an immense period of evolution, and there are also those who are disciplined after a short period of evolution. The Bodhisattva who lives in the inconceivable liberation for the sake of disciplining these living beings, who are disciplined through immeasurable periods of evolution, can make the passing of a week seem like the passing of a eon. Has anyone had a week that seemed like it was

[21:07]

like an aeon? Sometimes this happens, maybe especially in Sushilpuri. And they can make the passing of an aeon seem like the passing of a week for those who are disciplined through short periods. So some can, through an eventual period of evolution, actually perceive a week to be passing of an aeon, and some actually perceive an aeon to be passing of a week. Anyway, likewise, such a Bodhisattva, Namkhya Jigme Khyentse, can place all living beings in the palm of his right hand, or maybe left hand, in Jere's case, and can show them with the supernatural

[22:12]

speed of thought all the Buddha fields without ever leaving his own Buddha field. So this is, again, how this applies to time in general sense. So there's more. A Bodhisattva who lives in inconceivable liberation can magically transform any kind of living being into a universal monarch, or a world system's king, or a disciple, or a Shravaka, a solitary sage, a Bodhisattva, even into a Buddha. This Bodhisattva can transform miraculously all the cries and noises, superior and mediocre and inferior of all living beings of the ten directions into the voice of the Buddha. So this inconceivable liberation, the point of it is that it goes far beyond

[23:22]

the usual conceptualizations of reality, of the world. How we usually think of the world is just how we usually think of the world. It's not reality. According to this description, according to the Bodhisattva, the monarchy of this period, awakened by the Bodhisattva, Suzuki Roshi said, the world is its own magic. What was it, somebody in the Shakespeare shows, there's much more. What, you did an example? Yes. Can you quote that, Steve? There's more. There has been awareness in our world system, in our planet,

[24:23]

this dimension of inconceivability that the monarchy celebrates. Yes, another movie recommendation. Everything, everywhere, all at once. It's a wild ride, but if you can stand it, you might check it out. Anyway, so all of this is happening, but poor Mahakasyapa, the ancestor Mahakasyapa, who is in our lineage, at some point in this practice period, we will chant the names of Buddha, and he is the first ancestor, Chan, said, after Chakraborty Buddha. But he was just a disciple. He was just one of the 10 great disciples, historically, of Chakraborty Buddha. Mahakasyapa hears this teaching of inconceivable liberation

[25:24]

of the bodhisattvas, and he was amazed. And he says, well, he says a few things to Chakraborty Buddha, then he says, who is there among the wise who, hearing about this inconceivable liberation, does not conceive the spirit of unexcelled perfect enlightenment? As for us, whose faculties are deteriorated, talking about the arhats, the great disciples, the personally awakened ones, our faculties are deteriorated like a burned and rotten seed. What else can we do if we do not become receptive to the great vehicle? We, all the disciples and solitary sages of Shravakas, hearing this teaching of the Dharma, should utter a cry of regret that would shake this billion-world galactic universe. As for the bodhisattvas,

[26:30]

when they hear this inconceivable liberation, they should be joyful, like a young proud prince when he takes the throne, when he takes the crown that is anointed. And so, how is it to hear about this? Just hearing about it, we can't quite conceive of it. It's just this inconceivable liberation is beyond our faculties, beyond the faculties and disciples, but those of us on the bodhisattva path through bodhisattva practice might hear this liberation that is in the scope of the inconceivable and might feel joy. How wonderful. Things aren't what we think they are. There is more possibility than we could possibly imagine.

[27:36]

And when Mahakasyapa said this, it says, 32,000 gods conceived the spirit of unexhaled perfect divinity. Then, the Mahakasyapas said to the ancestors of Mahakasyapa, Reverend Mahakasyapa, the Maras, the demons who played the devil in the innumerable universes of the ten directions, are all bodhisattvas dwelling in the inconceivable liberation. They are playing the devil in order to develop living beings through their skill in liberative technique. All the miserable beggars, he continues, who come to the bodhisattvas of the innumerable universes of the ten directions to ask for a hand, a foot, an ear, a nose, some blood, muscles, and so forth. These are all bodhisattvas demonstrating the inconceivable liberation.

[29:00]

And then, this chapter ends with one of my favorite teachings in the Mahayana, which I found encouraging. The Mahakasyapa says to Mahakasyapa, it is not possible without special allowance that an ordinary person can less attack and deprive a bodhisattva. Just as a donkey could not muster an attack on a wild elephant, even so, Reverend Mahakasyapa, one who is not himself a bodhisattva cannot harass a bodhisattva. So, as bodhisattva practitioners, what does this mean? Only another bodhisattva can harass or hassle a bodhisattva. So, the people that you think of as most difficult

[30:09]

do you feel harassed by, according to this, are also bodhisattvas. Only one who is himself a bodhisattva can harass another bodhisattva, and only a bodhisattva can tolerate the harassment of another bodhisattva. This is the introduction to the power of the knowledge of the liberative technique of the bodhisattvas who live in the inconceivable liberation. So, this is actually a pretty wild thing to say. I mean, I know some of you may have felt hassled or harassed by particular beings in your life. But, according to this, they are just testing you to see if you can have what I talked about

[31:16]

patience and tolerance of the ungraspability, the unknowability of all so-called things. And I think in the previous chapter it talks about how there are no such things as things. You think this is a dead object? Not according to the sutra. There are no such things as objects of things. So, I'm tempted myself to apply this to the beings who are harassing and hassling all of us. So, these Tennessee fascist politicians who have expelled

[32:26]

members of their assembly who were elected just for questioning the gun laws that allow massacres of young people. Could it be that these horrible fascist politicians are just testing us and harassing us to see if we can respond as police officers and challenge our society's so-called weakly mass shootings? And the next Sunday, Dale Wright will be here talking about the Goddess of Freedom, who's a person prominent in Ramakirti Sutra. And is it possible that the fascist politicians who are threatening the safety of the lives of women all over our country,

[33:36]

depriving them of appropriate medical care, because they value the lives of fetuses more than the lives of children after they're born, is it possible they are just police officers in disguise, hassling us to test us to see if we can respond, you know, activate the response to this cruelty? So, I just, it occurs to me to wonder about that, hearing about only a bodhisattva can hassle another bodhisattva. And here we are all bodhisattva practitioners. You know, maybe just beginning bodhisattva practitioners. That's good enough. So, this inconceivability, this seeing spatial dimensionality and temporal dimensionality

[34:42]

as how we usually see them, as being just a small aspect of reality. Now, if she were the highest mountain in Indian cosmology, to fit in a mustard seed, you know, volatility can toss the whole universe around. Put it down on the beings in that universe are not aware of it, unless they are beings who can benefit from seeing all of this and develop bodhicitta and be inspired towards bodhisattva practice. This is what this chapter is saying. It's really wild. If you really take it seriously, this is beyond, beyond, beyond.

[35:46]

So, part of our challenge is this anapada-gadana chanting, which I'll keep talking about. This patience or tolerance of the inconceivability, the ungraspability of so-called things, of so-called spatial dimensions and temporal dimensions. This is a wild teaching. This is a teaching that goes beyond anything. Well, whoever made Men in Black imagine some of this. Dr. Who is an example. Yes, there are examples. Yes, Dr. Who travels through time, through space, to our distant future, to distant past. Yes, Dr. Who is great. And there are other examples of this in our culture, of seeing that our usual way

[37:00]

of conceiving of time and space and people and so-called things is just a fragment of reality. So, I feel like that, well, at some point during this practice, let me go back to this chapter and talk about it more, because it's, well, it's just mind-blowing, and it's really helpful, actually, but it's challenging. You might say, oh, this is just some Indian story, cosmological fiction. Anyway, I encourage you to consider this inconceivable teaching. So, maybe I'll stop and invite comments, responses, reflections from people on Zoom who are joining

[38:05]

us. And people in this room. So, comments, questions, responses, please feel free. Yes, please. Well, I have a question about the passage you read about the volunteer talking about the Dharma and not attaching anything else. Can you hear her on Zoom? I can't see people saying this. They're nodding. Yes, okay, good. Yes, speak up, please. Yeah, so, I said the passage about where the volunteer is talking about the Dharma and not attaching to anything else. And, I mean, in the spirit of non-duality, is he exaggerating so much that you come to question what he's saying? I mean, I'm asking as somebody that, frankly, like I can meditate in the middle of a mess, but that's not necessarily a good thing.

[39:09]

Well, it might be that your mess is a manifestation of Bodhisattva's ashram and allowing you to see that you can meditate. So, our practice is not about, so this is an important point, and our practice is not about making everything, you know, kind of clear and clean and nice and neat. I mean, that's good to do that. Well, yeah, that's the point. But that's not the point of inconceivable liberation. Inconceivable liberation includes that our world is a mess, not just your room. And how do we be upright and present and see the wonder of the universe? Right in the middle of that, but not passively. How do we respond to that? How do we help? Of course, that's part of the Bodhisattva practice. That's the point of the Bodhisattva practice.

[40:13]

And Vimalakirti, again, is living in Vaishali, a big city like Chicago, or at least in that time. And he's engaging in all the various complexities of that world. So, our practice is not to hide away from the world and not to hide away from suffering and chaos and messes. Well, if you don't indulge me for another moment, please. I mean, now that I'm saying that, well, you're talking about lighting me up. So, there's this, so this is from the Hindi language, the Mahabharata. Yes. So, the japa means an action of that. There's one scene where Arjuna's meditating in a forest, and he's very still. He doesn't move. But the power of this meditation is so strong

[41:14]

that it raises the heat in the forest, sort of a metaphor for climate change, and all the beings get uncomfortable, including the demons that are in the forest. And then this one little demon comes, and he starts, you know, because he's upset, because he's uncomfortable, and the meditation's made him uncomfortable. And the demon, you know, Arjuna, like, doesn't move at all. He's very still. And the demon's like, you know, flailing around and throwing mud at Arjuna. And, you know, Arjuna just, you know, sits there and ignores it. But finally, you know, he gets a little bit annoyed. And then he, like, whips his little finger like that, and then that makes the demon go, you know, fall down and fall apart. And I mean, you know, when you're talking, I think that whole story, it's about, well, you could see it as being about skillful means.

[42:17]

But also, that demon, from this perspective, is a bodhisattva. Yeah, right. So, yeah. But the thing is, the part when you were talking about, you know, how we react to the people that are hassling us, I think, you know, the idea that, like, a considered small reaction can produce a big effect. Yes. But it's the power and the, you know, all the commitment and thought and skillful means that go into that little flick of the wrist. Yes. And thank you for that. And that is an example of inconceivability, because we don't think that anything we can do will make a difference in the rest of the world.

[43:19]

But a little flick of the finger? Right. Just like a butterfly's wings flutter and it causes a hurricane, eventually. Yeah. So, part of our practice, and this is emphasized in Sutra Zen, is that we don't know the outcome of our activity. But our activity in response to the harassment of demon bodhisattvas can make a big difference, and we don't necessarily see the outcome. So, thank you very much, Eve. Anybody else? Comments, perspectives, questions about all this jam? I did not like the change in what you call, I think, Sam, when we said that, okay, something is endless and we vow to end them. And you changed that to cut through them.

[44:22]

Could you give me? Yes, delusions are inexhaustible. We vow to cut through them. Yes. And that's literally what the Sino-Japanese says. It doesn't say to end them. Oh, it doesn't say to end them. It says we vow to cut through them. So, thank you for bringing that up. This is a change that my teacher, Tenshin Renishi, made at Greenbelt a while ago. Literally, it doesn't say we vow to end delusions. This is an important point. It's an important Darwin point. We don't vow to end all delusions because delusions and awakening are not separate. So, part of what this Malakety Sutra is going to teach us is non-duality, that we live in the world of a mess and delusions. And we have our own delusions. We all have our delusions that interfere with our being all that we can be.

[45:28]

And the point isn't to get rid of them. The point is to see through them, to cut through them, to not be caught by our delusions, to not act on our delusions, to awaken to the reality that delusion and awakening are interactive. Delusions help us to realize awakening. Awakening helps us to see through delusions. But it's not about killing all the bad people, so-called. That's just our delusion. It's not about ending delusion. It's about not being caught by delusion. This is a really important point of practice. So, I appreciate you bringing it up. We vow to see through, to cut through, to move through all of our own delusions and delusions in the world. And awakening is how we do that.

[46:31]

And I had another comment. Okay. We were commenting on the people who are trying to deprive women of health care. And I've just read a book by Ann Elizabeth Moore, where she points out that 70 percent, I don't know where she gets this, of all the people who suffer from autoimmune diseases are women. And autoimmune diseases are previous, you know, previous illnesses. So that if you get an insurance policy that doesn't have to treat previous illnesses, this cuts out a huge population of women who suffer, and men too, who suffer from autoimmune diseases. And I just thought that was an important point of realizing that

[47:42]

certain kinds of insurance are very much anti-feminist. And in some places, a previous illness or a previous condition can be called pregnancy. And so I, yes, I just, I really wanted to talk about the fact that anti-feminism in health care is... It's not anti-feminism only, it's anti-women. Whether women believe in feminism or not, there's a tremendous persecution of women that will wear a cellulite alarm. It's horrible. And there's totally... Our health care system is a total fraud, or a lot of it is fraud. You know, there are good doctors and there are advances in medical systems,

[48:46]

but people in this country don't... Compared to other so-called developed industrial countries, our health care system is horrible. And many people become homeless or bankrupt because they have to have an operation. Anyway, yes. So yes to everything you're saying, and it's... And the politicians who are proposing this stuff, maybe to help us awaken. So Black people are, of course, under attack. They, you know, in Tennessee, they expelled the two Black... Two Black legislators who spoke up about reasonable gun control, adding assault weapons after people in their city were, you know, three nine-year-olds and three adults were slaughtered. So, but the woman who objected was because she's white, she'd be allowed to stay.

[49:48]

She wasn't as loud. Well, at any rate. Yeah. So all of that's happening. We should not pretend it's not happening. And thank you for, you know, emphasizing it, Jan. Women are being treated horribly. There are Black... Young Black men, but other Black people murdered by police every week. It's... And they're good policemen, too, but it's just... Anyway, our society is being harassed. And from the point of view of this Inconceivable Liberation, those who are in harassment are Bodhisattvas testing us. At any rate, whether you want to believe that or not, this teaching of Inconceivable Liberation is to go beyond our usual way of thinking. So other comments, questions, perspectives about Inconceivable Liberation?

[50:49]

Chris's hand is up online. Hi, Chris. Thank you. I wanted to first kind of respond to the healthcare system being anti-woman. And I would say it's anti-human. In this country, it's inhumane. Those are my biases. As somebody in healthcare, I might add. You're a doctor, right? Yes. Yeah, okay. So, I mean, compared to other countries, it's atrocious. Having said that, the comment about autoimmune disease and pre-existing conditions, those are not synonymous. Autoimmune diseases are their own separate entity, but that's does not, if you develop an autoimmune disease, it's not a pre-existing condition. So, but the question I had back to your Dharma talk is the Inconceivable Liberation

[51:53]

that the Malakirti is teaching. And because he's always in cahoots with the Buddha, is this a call to let go of our sense of our physical world? But the whole notion of these gigantic thrones and huge beings, that it's just let it go because this is not graspable. Ah, thank you. Thank you for that question. I would say it's not a call to let go of our physical world. It's a call to take care of our physical world, because our physical world is in this dimension of inconceivability. So, this hearing, so thank you for asking that. Hearing about these vast dimensions of space and time and so forth doesn't mean we should ignore the reality of this

[52:54]

here space and world in our particular lives. It's actually the opposite. It means that in our particular space and world, in our particular life, in our particular concerns about our life and our society are contained exactly in the delusions, we could say, in the illusions of this limited space here in Chicago. Although I see people online from Michigan and Mexico and I'm not sure where else. Here, in this life, this is the place where we take care. And where we practice. But then this here place, even if it's minute compared to this other world system, the Darwin universe, where they had these huge thrones.

[54:00]

Our life and our world includes all of that. So, we actually, I really appreciate the question, because it's easy to think that way. Oh, the world is so vast. The dimensions of time are so vast and also so minute that we don't have to pay attention to our ordinary world. And it's exactly the opposite. It's right in our ordinary world that all of this is happening. It's not separate. So, this teaching of non-duality is really complex and intricate and challenging to us. So, that's my response. I don't know, you know, this is the danger of these kind of sutras that present this vast array and panorama of this wild reality. That wild reality is not separate from the ordinary events of our lives.

[55:06]

So, thank you. Can I follow up to this comment? Yes, Kathy, please. I thought the same thing. And I think of it more as maybe the sutra is bringing attention to impermanence. That's true, too. Can everybody online hear her? I, as I was listening to his teachings today, I was thinking about some of the teachings I had from my Dallas teacher years ago, which sometimes describe the venerable awesome previous leaders who were now somewhere in my mind, in the sky somewhere, like bigger than life. Still in the spirit world, still somewhere. And also, when I go to acupuncture, my acupuncturist husband is a Dallas teacher. There is one side of the room, there are 16 tall statues of Buddha.

[56:12]

And so, there's this sense of its bigger than life. And it does do something about bringing our attention to the art that is impermanent. I think that there is a larger, there's layers here that maybe we can't fathom. But maybe it's usefulness to fathom it for that reason. Well, I think it's useful to be aware of the different dimensionalities. Large and small, short, tiny times and long times, that they are connected. And you mentioned the spirit world. I think that's a good way of thinking about it. So, Martin Luther King occurred to me, you know, he's still present, calling for justice, for working people, and black people, and, you know, we still evoke him.

[57:22]

So, his spirit is still alive. And many, many, many, many, many other beings, chucking in the Buddha himself. So, the spirit of seeing through how we get caught by the world, and people who have helped us to see through our usual perspectives on the world, yes. So, it is impermanent, but also it turns that impermanence to seeing this vast array of time. I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah. So, thank you. Other comments, questions, responses? Somebody back there. Is that Dylan? Terry. Oh, Terry, hey. Oh, you know this, in the beginning of what you read, when Shari Putra says,

[58:26]

you know, there aren't enough chairs for people here. And, though Curtin makes fun of him, like, this is to say, don't worry about it. Don't worry about what people are uncomfortable. Don't worry about, we should only focus on the down one. Which says to me, we shouldn't think about our real physical world. I don't think that's what it's about. It's not. So, yeah, right. He makes fun of Shari Putra for his concern about, where am I going to sit here? Of course, we take care of the particulars, but our idea of the particulars is limited. So, it doesn't mean, you know, that we don't try and have seats for everybody. But he's pointing to something that goes beyond our usual concerns. That care about the Dharma.

[59:32]

The Dharma is Buddhist teaching. The Dharma is truth. The Dharma is reality. And here, we're getting this view of the inconceivability of reality. Reality is not just what we think it is. Reality goes far beyond it. So, I don't think it means, don't take care of making the world more comfortable for those who are suffering, but see beyond our usual ideas of comfort and suffering in the world. That's how I take it anyway. But I appreciate your question. In fact, it's really important that we question all of this. That's the practice. David Rang, is there somebody? No, I had a follow-up on that.

[60:35]

Let's see. I'm switching from one camera to the other. I've just been finding as I read this text that I'm more and more interested in the figure of Shariputra and Reverend Shariputra, worthy of reverence, this revered arhat. And so, in a way, he seems like a stupid, but in another way, as Jerry just said, he's the one who notices, oh, all these people are coming. We need to provide for them. We need to set stuff up. And Vimalakirti kind of twists it because Shariputra didn't say, where am I going to sit? He said, how are we going to seat these people? And then Vimalakirti uses his cosmic Amazon Prime, gets these immense shares delivered instantaneously. But I don't know. I kind of think that maybe Shariputra is more in cahoots with this whole enterprise than I at first, you know, that he too is a bodhisattva in disguise as an arhat. Very good. That's what Dogen says.

[61:37]

So, yeah, this part, I think I said this in the first talk about the sutra, that the arhats, the, those worthy of praise, those who have found personal liberation, are kind of put down in the sutra somewhat. I'm seeing now more and more that actually in the sutra also, there's a way in which they are acknowledged. In other sutras, like the Lotus Sutra, it's very explicit that Shravakas, those who are just studying the teaching, and Pratyekabuddhas, solitary buddhas, and arhats, who are kind of, in this sutra, seem to be put down for the sake of the bodhisattva practice.

[62:45]

But then in the Lotus Sutra, exactly as you said, they are acknowledged as bodhisattvas, you know, kind of hidden because they are helping those who are inspired by them. So, yes. And there's even a passage in Dogen's extensive record where he takes an example of Subuddhi, another one of these disciples, who's put down much by the volatility. And Dogen says very strongly, the volatility doesn't seem to Subuddhi actually really understands better than he does. So, yes. With all of these Mahayana texts, the question is, what's going on? That's part of the practice. We're going to see what's going on beyond the usual conceptual reading of them. Paul, hi. Or that everyone has a role to play.

[63:46]

Yes. And that we often think that it's like a teacher and a student going back and forth, but it's not only those two individuals, it's everyone in the environment that's creating the learning environment. Yes. So, everyone has a role to play in that learning environment. So, this is a teaching about Sangha, that we're all in it together. It's not that I have all the answers up because that's not the point at all. I can babble about these things because I've been studying it for a long, long time. But it's up to each one of you to make it real. So, yes. And together we help. So, there are people in the Sangha who are doing all kinds of wonderful things. And each of them is important. Teaching martial arts, being psychological counselors, being teachers in great schools and colleges. There's just many people who are chaplains and social workers.

[64:53]

And anyway. All of us together are doing one piece of the inconceivable liberation. So, the inconceivable liberation is about Sangha, practically speaking. So, thank you. Do you want something to say? It's more of a question, but it might be semantic by the time. Is the Tushar proposing that there are just like infinite perspectives on what's happening or that there are limited perspectives that get a piece of a genuine larger reality that's beyond comprehension? Like, is the proposition that there is an incomprehensible reality that our perspectives are within? Or is the proposition that there are just innumerable perspectives that may be grander

[66:02]

or smaller in scope? You know, I know there's as many of them as can be imagined. Yes. So, I knew you were going to do this. No, but yes, thank you for that. Because, yeah, so you're asking what is reality? Is there one ultimate reality? Or are there lots and lots and lots and lots of little realities? Well, but you're saying then the perception is synonymous with reality. I'm saying that there are, that we each have our own perspective. So, and that's important, and that's wonderful. And from the point of view of the Sutra, I guess it's saying that Buddha, or the Dharmakaya, all the Buddhas, you know, there's so many quadrillions or whatever of Buddha fields,

[67:05]

and each one has a Buddha, but Buddha sees it all. So, that's kind of one of the perspectives in the Sutra. So, one of the perspectives that there is, is that there is an all-pervasive perspective? Okay. But following what you said about Buddha field, so is there a Sangha field? Do Sanghas make fields? I mean, in other words, the collective perception of a Sangha, an action based on that, does that make its own reality? Yeah, and here we are, in our Lincolnsburg Zen Do, in our Amagwan Zen Do, in our Shaka fields. For our Sangha field, the Ancient Dragon Sangha field. Yes. Well, I mean, I just want to say yes, that it's not just a matter of perception, a reality that's separate from yourself.

[68:07]

But if you have power as a Sangha field, you're changing reality. Well, right. Each Bodhisattva practitioner is changing reality. By our work to help relieve suffering, by our work to help inspire everyone to practice awakening, to awaken to practice, to awaken to care for all beings. So, yeah, we make a difference, each one of us and all of us together. And we don't know the product of that difference. And there are Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and Buddha fields in the flower and the sutra. The tip of every staff and the tip of every blade of grass, there are innumerable Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. The reality is made up of awakening beings everywhere.

[69:08]

That's not something we ordinarily see. And when we look at, appropriately look at the troubles of our lives in the world, it's hard to see them. That's reality. One more comment or question. Somebody who hasn't spoken yet. I see Nathan, how are you doing? Any reflections for us? Nope. Nathan was maintaining a couple of seconds. Any last comments? Okay, Jan, go ahead.

[70:11]

I personally don't believe in thoughts and prayers. And I think that when people make their change in reality with thoughts and prayers, I don't believe that. And I have problems. When I was in Israel, the people who were actively defending, it was a long, long time ago. And the people who were actively defending Israel had a lot of resentment against the section of Israeli society that would not participate except through prayer. So that's my first comment. But I wonder if... Can I respond to that? Yeah, I'm sorry I speak so much. I just have one more comment. Okay. Okay, go ahead. No, no, finish yours and then I'll respond. Well, I wanted to respond to what Kathy said about lasers.

[71:14]

Because this is really, really personal. You start out as a child. I went to school and found out, to my enormous surprise, that our bodies are made up of cells, which I... And then to my further surprise, every cell contains chromosomes with DNA, which are made up of molecules and atoms. And then I became interested in the structure of the atom and actually was teaching that the structure of matter as seen by human beings, there's the periodic table. But then you go beyond that to the periodic table of isotopes, and it gets more and more complicated. Then I realized that in the middle of a hydrogen bomb, you get a substance called plasma that has nothing to do... Not nothing, but it's not atoms.

[72:20]

And it's not some atomic particles. It is some kind of a mess that we don't understand. And then you learn that scientists say a huge percentage of the matter in the universe, we can't see, but we know it's there because of its effect. And you go on beyond this and think, what in the hell is the middle of a black hole? And then people say, well, what's on the other side of the universe? And you're thinking, layers. You can't... I cannot conceive of what this is all about. Right. And so I'm going to try to respond briefly. So hopefully our world will not be visited by a hydrogen bomb, even though military powers

[73:20]

in various countries are building bigger and better ones. But yeah, what you said about the structure of... This is very interesting. The structure of an atom. Things that are like nucleus and electrons and stuff, other things whirling around it. And you can arise it on the periodic table. Yeah, but also the structure of a solar system. There's a sun in the middle, and then there's planets and asteroids and stuff all around that. And then the structure of a galaxy, they say. There's a center, and we're on one small wing of all the things rolling around the center of the galaxy. And when Buddha talks about... And actually, in science, when they talk about many universes, I forget what term they're using, but there are many universes. So the structure of a center and things around it replicates itself over many dimensions,

[74:25]

which is part of what this chapter is talking about. So that's just a partial response to your second thing. I'm going to go back to thoughts and prayers. So, actually, it's been proven by, or it's been demonstrated through experimentation that, and we have a well-being list, that we chant, we try to chant once a month, it's very long, and then be exalted, but they've demonstrated that people who are being prayed for, it helps them. Even if they don't know that anyone's praying for them, this has been demonstrated through scientific experiments. However, when politicians respond to mass shootings, like the mass shooting in Nashville, the killing of schoolchildren, by saying, oh, I thought some prayers were with them,

[75:29]

in that sense, yeah, that's not helpful, because there are obviously things that can be done, like banning assault rifles, and anyway, that the gun violence in this country is just a problem. There are more guns than there are people. Also, they're already dead. Well, the people who are victims of the mass shootings, they're not on our well-being list. No, but we do have a loyal list, but the well-being list is for people threatened by all of this, too. Right, and we can pray for them, but we don't know, there are no studies that have demonstrated that prayers for people who have died benefit them. Right, yes, thank you, yes. And that would be great if we did have a kind of experimental base so we could study that,

[76:35]

and how people who have died are benefited. Anyway, so that's part of Buddhist tradition, but yes, just to say, oh, well, we're not going to change the laws about having assault rifles available, and there are, I think it's Florida and Texas now, where you can carry assault rifles without a permit openly, that's the direction they're going. And thoughts and prayers don't help when so many vicious weapons of war are available to teenagers. It's just, it's incendiary. So, yes, thoughts and prayers can help, but there's a limit to, there's also actually helping, so, in a physical sense. So, I appreciate you bringing this up, Jan. So, maybe it's time to stop for now.

[77:41]

We're going to continue studying the Mahakirti Sutra. Douglas will be here, this is in the realm of announcements, but Douglas will be here tomorrow evening talking about sickness, and how the Mahakirti Sutra always has a teaching. And next Sunday, Dale Wright, my scholar, has written a very good book about the Mahakirti Sutra, will be here, talking about the goddess, the goddess of freedom. The Mahakirti chapter, there's a lot to say about that. So, let's close with the four words of the Mahakirti Sutra.

[78:27]

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