How are you all doing? Since most of you are pretty new to practice, I've been trying in this session to speak to you about things which are pretty first-hand opportunities for practice.

[01:11]

practice, usually as I presented and as Tsujiyoshi presented, with beginners emphasizing careful, mindful practice, mindfulness, Abhidharma type psychology. And next, a refinement, a widening of your attitudes, which is more like prajnaparamita practice. Prajnaparamita practice is like Every attitude you identify, you counteract it with a slightly wider attitude, more inclusive attitude, until you remove all your attitudes.

[02:42]

After that, practice is more elusive. Depends on the individual and often at that stage koans are used or situations as they come up with each other. The practice most of you should be doing is counting your breaths, counting your exhales. And even if you've been practicing a long time, counting your exhales is an excellent way to practice.

[04:30]

particularly at the beginning of zazen. Tsukiyoshi, all his life, started his zazen, most of the time, with counting, at least for a short while. Counting your breaths brings your... because counting is a thought. brings your thinking into a kind of physical breathing rhythm. So it makes a kind of transition from your regular responsive thinking mind to a mind related to zazen, to your body. And you'll notice that even when you stop counting, you're counting your thinking. So it's not so serious that you've lost count, because your thinking itself will tend to be related to your body, will tend to come in as your practice gets better.

[05:54]

tend to come in sort of units related to your breathing. Thoughts will come and go on your breathing. So that still remains a kind of counting. Following your breathing is not an extension of counting your breathing. It's a little different practice. It's not a more advanced form of counting your breathing, where you don't need to count anymore. That's not exactly what it is. It's pretty hard to notice when you first start practicing these kinds of distinctions, or how a practice like counting actually functions, because you don't have the ability to notice It's like you have paws instead of hands. You can't quite get at things. Dogen, you know, said, when the use is great, or when the need is great,

[07:21]

there will be great use. When the need is small, there will be great, small use. If you're going to have some great use of yourself, you have to have a great need first. And if you're going to see the many worlds on everything, you must also see the many small needs and many small uses. Dogen says, when this is so, you completely To the utmost, you fill the boundaries of your situation, turning a freedom. So you're increasing your participation in your sight.

[08:46]

And counting your breaths, counting your thoughts, in a sense, actually counting your thoughts, breathing your thoughts, you come into greater participation with your thinking. Your observer is more subtle. And then, following your breath, is to let your body take over. Thinking disappears. And sensation is your main experience. Overall sensation of breath penetrating every single pore and cell. So these two practices give us the first experience of letting go of our thinking. And the four trances are nothing but this.

[10:18]

As you have to work with your body and your mind and your breathing, you have to work with the structure of your life, your kind of concretized thoughts and attitudes as you live it. Somehow you've got to get at those too. Breathing maybe your physical life, not just your thoughts. But somehow you have to start breathing your life if you want this revolution in your thinking and feeling, which allows you to completely fill your boundaries. This non-abandonment of others is almost the opposite of what our families teach us.

[11:39]

more wanting us to be successful lawyer or doctor or something. Isn't there some, I don't know, Yiddish, isn't there some Yiddish word like kovel or nach, natch, [...] natchis, which means to take pride in your child or something like that. I don't know. I've heard such. That's it. That's the opposite, maybe, of a non-abandonment of others. You want your child to be something outstanding, above others. Maybe that's not what it means. It doesn't. I think everybody, every family has that kind of feeling.

[12:45]

I think the feeling is probably right, but the form, the definition as in comparison with others is different from our emphasis in Buddhism, certainly. Anyway, somehow the many structures that have been put on us, we have to try to breathe them too. And for that purpose we have Tassajar, which works pretty well. It's not strict enough to work as well as it does. So it must be, I think, the fact that it's such an unusual place and a pretty isolated feeling, that it tends to allow us to read in quite a short time. People can get a fresh feeling for the possibilities of their life. And many people are able to

[14:37]

in very substantial ways restructure their life so that their values, their emphases are quite different. Anyway, some way to break our personal habits, to change, to get a breathing participation in our life structures is necessary. It can't be done just in our head. Our whole life has to be practiced with. So that's why we have zazen and various ways of eating and doing things. Now, trance is not such a good word for trances, because maybe only the first two are like trances. Trance implies some semi-conscious state.

[16:08]

You know, if someone's in a trance, you don't disturb them usually, ask them for a nap. They might go up in flames. But when you, as some of you must experience by being in session, and when for a while you can begin to let go of your thinking and often it occurs by being distracted or your attention being diverted for a minute and suddenly you find you've dropped your thinking or you drop making connectives. So the first trance is based on detachment. When your detachment is pretty complete, that turning over I talked about, you can do. You can sit dozen and everything drops away. But you still have some thinking.

[17:41]

And you feel, usually you feel something wonderful, some great ease or rapture, blissful feeling. And it comes up when we can stop our thinking. You may only feel it for a little while, but If you practice, you'll feel it quite often, and it will start coming up in everything you do. For some unexplained reason, you'll keep feeling quite good. And events will make you feel good. Not something... The good feeling comes on activity. Not just standing around, but when you notice something, you feel good. whether what you notice is good or bad. Anyway, this is characteristic of the first trance or first absorption. These, you know, I always expected when I first started meditating

[19:16]

Sukhyoji explained about this kind of thing, that later there would be this great content of the various trances that I would be introduced to and various levels of description. I expected some mystical thing. But in Buddhism it's more like a road map, a pretty simple road map, and what occurs along the road is up to you. Buddhism is not interested in what occurs along the road. That's you, that's all. No need to point it out. No need to discuss the various things which can occur along the road. but it can be quite attractive and interesting and often it occurs too when we're rather sleepy or

[20:31]

when there's very little disturbance. It'll occur more at night time or more in seclusion or the mountains or in Tassajara, where you feel relieved of outside pressures. And this second trance is more of the same, but you have dropped... It's some difference, because you drop applied thinking. You no longer... I describe applied thinking as like eating, you're trying to concentrate on your eating bowl, you are applying your concentration to your eating bowl. That is applied concentration. But next is with... you don't apply at all, just like a mirror, your mind just sees things. But is...

[22:03]

and may produce thoughts about these things, but it's quite concentrated without any application. And you may have various kinds of thoughts, and they may be rather confused, mixed-up thoughts even, but you view them like looking at some bushes or something. Oh, those are tangled bushes. You don't... It's not a matter of getting rid of such thoughts. Just, you know immediately, oh there, my mind is producing a great tangle of thoughts. And it doesn't disturb you at all. When I was in the Southwest with Mrs. Suzuki, I saw tumbleweed for the first time. Have you ever seen tumbleweed anywhere? God, everywhere we went there was these tumbling tumbleweed was passing back and forth in front of the car. So thoughts are like tumbleweed, they kind of tumble in and tumble out. So in the second trance you don't have second absorption, you don't have any applied thinking, but you have kind of pure concentration.

[23:35]

So, the second one emphasizes concentration that doesn't require a focus or some application. Detachment is a kind of concentration, but may be produced by concentration, but an applied concentration. So, the second trance is more joyful and pleasant feeling, and your thinking has become quite smooth. not rough edges, not ups and downs, even though the same thoughts may occur, negative or positive, just one continuous, smooth, deep. You can begin to have one continuous series of thoughts. If you want to, for instance, identify everything with emptiness, you can just very easily, everything you do, you identify with emptiness. It can just be part of what you do. Your mind now works this way without effort. Now in this stage, this is the stage which many, seems to be the stage many mystics and many religion and ascetics delight in.

[25:05]

because it can be quite extraordinary. This is the danger, because if you emphasize this, I don't think we have the danger, because we don't emphasize experience, but if you emphasize experiences you can get quite, this is the world's best candy, you can get quite attached to it, you can produce, you know, marvelous, colored, multi-dimensional, pleasant images of things, and see things very clearly, and feel quite good, as long as you're not too disturbed. So it requires you to It's still a kind of trance, you know, it requires you to get rid of distractions and lead a pretty balanced life.

[26:32]

It's what motivates somebody to live in a cave or something like that. The third one is an important turning point, which is characteristic of Buddhism, which is that you give up rapture, you give up some blissful feeling. And with that giving up of sensation or something particularized, good or bad, when you really can do that, your thinking, thinking that you can describe as thinking, discursive or applied or any kind, more or less disappears. Activity and thinking application, etc., all kind of one thing without there being a discernible separation. So, it's rather protective, but at this stage you have begun

[28:02]

or almost free of an observer, no more observer of your activities. And the last stage, you've given up for the third, you still feel some great comfort and ease. Everything moves quite easily, everything in the world seems quite easy. And fourth, you give up ease. And there's no... This is again similar to the irreversible, but no sign, no apprehension, there's no entities at all. At this stage we can say the world is the thought of Buddha, or it's very difficult to describe

[29:27]

things at this point, because no longer is it a trance, no longer is it something separate, no longer are distractions necessary, keeping distractions away necessary. Your state of mind and being is one with being completely awake, so it's not so accurate to call it a trance. stage is what really the Prajnaparamita literature is talking about all the time. And this is the stage that Zen practices. So this is the reason why Zen just emphasizes what you are doing. Everything as Wang Po says over and over again, everything as just your mind of no division, no discrimination. This very mind is Buddha. This very mind is Buddha. This is the fourth jhāna.

[30:43]

This is where Zen gets its name. Chan, Jan, Chan, Jan. Just keep emphasizing, no discrimination, no attachment. And to deepen and refine your attitudes. trying to give you some way, like Tassajar and life here in the Green Gump, to restructure your concrete thoughts, the life of your world. Okay.

[32:20]

Yeah. Your practice in the beginning will be greatly enhanced by your beginning to easily follow, count your breaths, follow your breaths, and to be able to easily follow some odd way of life like living in this building or going to Dasara.

[33:40]

And taking every opportunity to do zazen without avoiding your daily responsibility. Softening yourself up in a way. Until you know the difference between applied thinking and discursive thinking. until you can have a successive train of no thoughts, no thinking, leaving no trace, as Dogen says. This is called stopping. Stopping means there's no more entities, no more identifications. There's no way to reverse. You're irreversible because there's no identifications to go back to. This is Dogon's no trace. Because your thinking itself is no longer producing entities.

[35:13]

to practice this is sort of scary. It requires your courage to kind of blindly try something, giving up your usual ideas of life, how to live. We're talking about something, when you actually face it, it's quite radical. You end up looking just like everyone else, But the process is quite radical to actually give up, to abandon your life, to abandon your life to the four trances and allow your manifestation, your sight, your completely utmost with your boundaries to take care of you. You don't have to be scared because you won't disappear. Well, you probably won't disappear. Even if you don't, even if you don't remember who you are, if you've completely forgotten, your friends won't. They will remind you in the morning, good morning, so and so.

[36:59]

So constantly you'll be re-authentified and you can forget about it, by the way. If I had time I'd give you a new Buddhist name every morning. So you're at that point where you're asking yourself, do I want to fill out my boundaries completely by giving up all those names which are less than?

[38:06]

complete... I don't know, I can't say it. It's like disappearing. No one will notice, your parents won't notice, your friends won't notice, but you'll feel like you're going to disappear for a while. so

[39:32]

This completeness is when you can click in. As I was saying, the sutras describe the tathagata as when they're irreversible, as being joined, united with the Dharma. Can't say where the boundary is. Why should we bother with this strange description? Either we're already like that or it seems rather unnecessarily dramatic way to describe things. It may be an embarrassing way to describe things, but we know, the sangha knows, that we feel it. We feel it in our zazen. We feel it coming up in our life. And it's by far and away the purest, completest feeling we have.

[41:28]

may be one of the shortest feelings we have, but we don't easily forget. And we feel called upon by others to acknowledge it too. without losing touch with ourselves, without losing touch with each other. Tempering our experience towards common foundation for our practice, for Buddhist practice. Coming out from trance, from

[42:52]

That change of mind and body which one goes through by being familiar with those giving up of the various kinds of thinking. We awaken into a world in which thinking and activity are one, form and emptiness are one. subject and object, Buddha and you are one. This experience is what is called, everything is mine. This very mind is Buddha. This very moment is Buddha's thought. There is no other way to describe it which we can commonly understand. though there's no need to describe it or to say, I understand it, I have achieved such and such, whatever. In fact, if you are able to have such thoughts, sustain such thoughts, you are still at best in the first trance.

[44:36]

Giving up means also it no longer appears. Thinking gives up. Thinking. And you see your intimate participation with everything. Small uses and big uses. Is there something you'd like to talk about? Yes. Did you hear what he said? Last night, Tatanto asked us

[46:01]

to enter into the ocean of pain. How does this relate to the four trances? Well, pain is, for most of us, Droste beans. Pain is the only thing which will cut through. Almost nothing else will get us. And pain ups the ante. Pleasure wouldn't be enough. So it's the most pain, you know, forces so powerfully on us, the observer, who feels the pain.

[47:30]

gives us the greatest opportunity to get rid of the observer, as Ed was saying. All you need to do is do it once. If once you can actually drop your observer, and you continue practicing, your life will be different. The hard time is the first time. Sometimes when we talk about practice like this, I feel very stiff and rigid. I notice that it makes it hard for me to be with myself in front of the people around me.

[48:41]

Let me try to... There's lots of stuff left out. Let's see if I can figure out what you're saying. When we talk like this, today or sessions in general, It's such a general feeling that I get when you talk about having more choice. I feel very narrow, but that must mean everything else is wrong. Did you hear what he said? Recognizing that he has, in his own way, recognizing he has no choice. And because I'm so convincing, or Buddhism is so convincing, it makes us feel rather narrow. And you have the experience sometimes with your friends that you feel rather narrow because

[50:10]

their way isn't right and your way, because they should be questioning Buddhism. It's an unfortunate problem. Do you all understand the problem? That's a very interesting question. I think if we answer it from a kind of mundane point of view, I guess I myself am convinced that Buddhism is the most developed intellectual explanation of our situation on the planet.

[52:00]

So it's extraordinarily convincing, I think it is. I don't think it should be convincing at the price of other ways, but it's convincing. Much Buddhism says that it is the utmost way, but really it's the incomparable way because you don't compare it, because there's no way to compare it. That's more from another point of view. Anyway, it's the best, most developed, man-made explanation of our reality. There may even be some general agreement on that. It may not be the best way to practice it. There may be other ways which, by faith or by belief or by

[53:06]

some other kind of practice may be better. I'm not familiar with them, so I can't say. And they may not be concerned at all that the explanation, say, of Hinduism is convincing. They may say, this is the most satisfying explanation. Buddhism is very convincing, but it's not satisfying. You know, maybe so. So I suspect every great explanation like Hinduism and Buddhism and Christianity has its own thoroughly convincing aspect. The question you raised of mutuality, I'd like to maybe respond to some other time, tomorrow or something. But mostly, if you make your friends uncomfortable, then you're treating groupism as a possession. And it's best if you can stop doing it. Particularly in the first few years of practice,

[54:38]

certainly the first couple of years, it's very difficult not to feel that way, because you yourself are in the process of convincing yourself, and that kind of overflows onto other people. Maybe it's better to isolate yourself with Prasanna. We can all convince each other. and leave people who don't want to be convinced. And when you're all involved in convincing each other, we can have some very interesting discussions, because we don't have to worry about reservations. So we can actually get farther out. Another situation. That's it. I was going to stop. Four. You were first. No, you were first. Oh, all right. Well, one, two, three, four, five. Why don't you all ask the same question?

[56:34]

Sometimes, during the time I've been confused, susceptible to sleep, I've been murdered, and I've had to deal with every one of these adversions. And I come back at midnight, and I start to get sleepy. I don't think that sometimes I'm sleeping properly. You just have to quite a bit of energy to talk to yourself. Physical energy. I can feel my heart beating better and I can feel my body straighten up. And I can use them, I can actually, I can use them until I'm going enough, so that I don't, so that they kind of go away. But it's strange, kind of, I'm a little worried about it, because it seems like it might have repercussions.

[58:06]

Okay, you know I'd like to do that, I'd like to hear all the questions. You can all answer them yourselves. I just get tired of questioning and responding. of a lot of questions. John? When you first talked about being stuck and stuck and stuck, and then I started sitting in sessions after that, and on the way to the first session, I guess I was apprehensive about being able to be stuck and stuck and stuck. And I realized I had a fear of being buried alive. And I realized I was already dead. That's good, we're all buried alive. That's quite an exit. I found it. It's helped me very much.

[59:29]

We've been hunting for your body. be the same problem. And it seems to relate to the whole question of form. And when I'm facing people, somewhere in that realm of formlessness, there seems to be some tension in the matter itself, in the mental self. OK. You forgot? I have a question. Oh, I see. All right. You tell me. There's something you said, and I didn't hear you back. How many people are in the room? Pardon me? The operating room is empty.

[61:00]

Yeah. Let me respond to that. I think to treat yourself as an experiment, as a play, not as if you existed, and not as something serious, but as if you took seriously. It's the most important way to begin to loosen up our practice. Anyway, the rest of your question, I'll save up for the moment. You had one. What's the difference Between what was sleeping and what was gone beyond, you discussed the thinking. Is there a difference? For the older students, it's hard to know. The difference is, a new student wide awake, you can walk up behind him and hit him with a two-by-four. But an old student sound asleep, you can't get anywhere near them.

[62:27]

As soon as you get quite near there. Even David Chadwick, you know, who really sleeps a lot, you know, I told you, I used to sit, he would sit over here, and I couldn't move without him waking up, right? So finally, he got on to this after one time, I got my stick, you know, first I put it down here earlier. sound asleep, you know. And it's embarrassing how asleep he gets, you know. His head was the only thing. It's very hard to sneak up on him, though. So I took my stick, you see, and I was sitting over here.

[63:49]

Another time I got in, he was sitting down there. I was sitting on the altar and he was sitting in the first seat. He was Jisha. There's a wooden board that we use for putting the sticks down on. And both Chunkos were down at the other end of the space, and I was sitting. And I couldn't reach him normally. I picked up that whole board. But he sleeps quite a lot, and it's very difficult to From then on, I couldn't do that either. I moved to the board.

[65:02]

Hearing and understanding and acting on. What do you mean by hearing? Okay, I understand. Feel that?

[65:56]

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