So, good morning, everyone, and welcome. I'm Taigen Layton, the Guiding Dharma teacher at Ancient Dragon Zen Gate. I want to welcome Professor Cathy from the McCormick Seminary in Hyde Park and all of his students. And I want to make some forum announcements before I begin. So this is partly for Professor Cathy's students in hopes that you may return for future events, but also for our regular participants that when you enter the screen, particularly this is for during meditation, that you bow and then turn to the side. So please don't stare at the screen during meditation. The exceptions are the Zoom host and Ancient Dragon Dharma teachers

[01:02]

may be facing the screen or guest teachers. And I want to also mention something about Zazen, just a posture, just a Zazen posture reminder in our Zazen meditation, we do emphasize posture and sitting upright. So please have the back of your hand with your neck straight and don't, I'm exaggerating, but don't have your head facing down like this or up like this, but with the head straight and earphones in your ears, if you have them, although you don't need those for meditation, looking down at a 45 degree angle. So again, you're not, chin not up or down. So thank you, that's for everyone as reminders. I want to talk this morning about faith and faith in Zen practice, its role in Zen practice.

[02:09]

So faith for us is a kind of activity and a kind of posture, physical posture and mental posture. Faith is not belief in some thing, in a deity or a dogma. So I'm talking about faith in, well, particularly in Zen, but in, and I'll come back to Buddhism generally, but faith is not about something else. It's not belief in, again, some dogma or doctrine. It's not belief in some deity. It's a way of being. So words that maybe are more complete translations for us, there is a Chinese character that means faith, but it really means trust or confidence or commitment.

[03:20]

Often faith is described in terms of vow, practice of vow. So it's how we carry ourself and see the world and a support for that. The Chinese character for faith is a person next to their word, the radical for person and the radical for word. So it's standing by your word. There's one way that we might understand faith in the Buddhist perspective, in the East Asian perspective. Again, not belief in something else. So, you know, during this past challenging year, it's many people have suffered horribly with COVID and other medical issues, with economic issues, loss of jobs.

[04:23]

This has been a difficult year. And even for those who are privileged to not have some devastation, this has been a difficult year. So faith is very relevant. And still we're not finished with the pandemic and all the other pandemics, climate crises and pandemics of racial injustice, all of these situations that beset our world. How do we find our confidence, our faith, our trust, our commitment to continue our practice? So in the practice we do here is Sazen meditation and Zen in the tradition of Heihei Dogen, the founder of what's now called Soto Zen in the early 13th century.

[05:26]

And I'm gonna talk about some of his writings about faith. But again, faith is not about fixing problems. It's not calling on some other super being to fix things for us. Faith may be helpful. In fact, faith is helpful in terms of how we may be helpful and how we may receive help. This practice of trust, of commitment, of caring, that is faith helps us to be available to the world and to ourselves and to our deeper selves. This is how to find our way to persist, how to find resilience in a difficult world, but also within our own personal problems,

[06:28]

our own personal patterns of greed or grasping, of anger, of confusion. How do we respond from a place of trust and faith? How do we trust something deeper that's not separate from us? This is what faith is about in Zen practice. How do we find ways to support each other? How do we use our commitment and trust to be helpful? So this is a big question. One of Dogen's essays was called Deep Faith in Cause and Effect. So this is about actually trusting the world, trusting ourselves, trusting reality. Cause and effect is the basis of the Four Noble Truths,

[07:33]

the basic teachings of Buddhism, that our actions have effects. And everything that happens in our life and in the world is a product of various causes. So to have faith in and trust in cause and effect is the basis of our ethics, actually, that we realize that what we do has an effect. So we need to be attentive and careful and trust. So none of this is separate from this deeper faith and commitment. So I'm using the word faith, and Buddhism uses the word faith in a way that's different from how it is often thought of in many Western contexts. So there's also faith that arises from zazen,

[08:38]

from this upright sitting meditation that we do, where we just sit upright and pay attention to thoughts and feelings. Don't get obsessed by them. Just let them go. They come again. Be aware of our sensations as we are sitting upright. Be aware of physical sensations. Be aware of sound around us. And especially we focus on our breathing sometimes just to be aware of inhale and exhale and to enjoy our inhale and exhale. This practice is the source of faith for us. We can connect with some greater wholeness. So we have faith in cause and effect,

[09:42]

but also faith in something that goes beyond just the phenomena of the world. We gain through zazen a sense of something that goes beyond, of something ultimate, some ultimate awakening. So doing this practice, we are part of the Bodhisattva way, caring about the situation of the world, trying to support everything to awaken. So we will chant at the end, the four Bodhisattva vows. Beings are numberless. We vow to free them. Delusions are inexhaustible. We vow to end them or to cut through them. Dharma gates, gateways to the Dharma are boundless, everywhere, formal teachings and informal teachings. And we vow to enter them. And Buddha's way is unsurpassable. We vow to realize it.

[10:43]

This practice of vows is the practice of faith, that we don't, again, faith doesn't mean that we call on something else to fix things, but that we realize that there is this deeper sense of, I would call it wholeness, this greater wholeness. And it's always available. It's always there. So I've talked about the very first time I had Zazen instruction from my first teacher. And I had this experience of, oh, it's okay. So often people come to practice because of some problem in their lives or problem in the world. I was actually in a pretty good place in my life when I had my first Zazen instruction. Of course, I had problems later on, but this feeling of, oh, okay,

[11:45]

I can just sit upright and be here and be here and just be here and something is okay. This doesn't negate all of the different sufferings of the world that we have to attend to in our Bodhisattva practice, but also there's something that goes beyond. And knowing that or having some glimpse of that gives us a kind of sense of possibility of commitment, of vow, of trust that allows us to be more effective in being helpful with ourselves and with all beings. So, of course, there are some forms of Buddhism that seem like they are talking about faith in something else, in Pure Land Buddhism, which goes back to India,

[12:48]

but is maybe the dominant form of Buddhism in Japan. The various Pure Land schools, they call on Amida Buddha. They call the name Amida Buddha. One of the things that they do is many, many different Buddhas that are part of our tradition. And it may be that people who do that are calling on Amida Buddha and feel like Amida Buddha may come and help them, but it's deeper than that. It's about just being in connection with Amitabha Buddha, the Buddha of great light. So our faith is about a sense of connection, a sense of wholeness, a possibility of practicing kindness and caring and awareness and going further and deeper in that. So our practice doesn't end with this faith.

[13:54]

Part of our faith is Buddha going beyond Buddha, as sometimes Dogen says, that whatever awareness or understanding of awakening we have, there's more. There's more in terms of all the situations of the world and whatever pandemics may come after this one and difficulties in the world and in our life. How do we respond to that? Another branch of Buddhism that seems like it's about faith in something else is the Lotus Sutra schools, Nichiren schools in Buddhism, where they call Namu, Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, calling on the Lotus Sutra. Lotus Sutra is also very important in Zen. And it's okay if you want to say Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, even in the middle of Zen, it's fine. And if you want, and in Zen, actually, in our Zen liturgy and in our Zen practice,

[14:57]

we often call on the Buddhist and ancestors. And we tell stories about the Zen ancestors and stories that support our practice now. We also call on the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and the many Bodhisattva figures like Guanyin or Kanon, the Bodhisattva of compassion, who listens to the suffering of the world and responds with various tools and various perspectives. So it's not, so again, faith is an active practice. It's not just calling on somebody somewhere else or something somewhere else to help us. It's something active. And maybe, and popularly in some of the faith schools in Buddhism, you know, maybe people think of it that way,

[15:59]

but really that's not what faith is about in Buddhism. So I want to read, and I look forward to your comments and questions and discussion, but I want to read some passages from the chant that we're going to be chanting at the end of this, Ehekosuhotsuganmon, which is Ancestor Dogen's words for arousing vow. And in Zen and in Buddhism, faith and vow, arousing vow, often is connected with arousing faith. They're kind of similar. So I'm just going to read some of the passages in this chant that we're doing later. Dogen starts, we vow together with all beings from this life on throughout numerous lifetimes, not to fail to hear the true Dharma, the true teaching,

[17:00]

the truth about reality. Hearing this, we will not be skeptical and will not be without faith. So when we receive, we could say the Buddha teaching, but teachings of awakening, any teaching that is helpful, how do we develop this trust, this commitment, this faith in ourselves? And, you know, this faith is connected to, well, in Sangha to the people we practice with, but the beings around us, family, friends, how do we find trust, even in really difficult times? It's difficult. It's hard. Many people are still suffering. It looks like the pandemic will be over.

[18:01]

People are, I've received two vaccines myself, so I'm happy that, and many of us have, and I'm happy that this pandemic may be over in the foreseeable future, and that we can go out and hang out together again. It's been a long year. It's a strange time. I wonder if there will be great literature or films or poetry about, and I'm sure there already is, about what this is like to be quarantined for a year. So we have this Zoom screen, and I can see all your faces. It's neat. And actually, you know, we, as you know, we lost our physical temple up on Irving Park, where Professor Cathy has been,

[19:04]

maybe some of the students, just wasn't COVID-friendly. And we are starting the process of looking for another larger space that will be more amenable to future vaccines, future pandemics. So it's been over a year since we met in person. It's strange. And yet this Zoom world that we are all now in has had its benefits. People from all the way down in Hyde Park can come without having to find transportation. And we have people from, we've had people from, I don't know, a couple dozen different states. Nathan's here from Michigan. Hi, Nathan. And we have regular participants

[20:05]

from Argentina and from Israel. And anyway, we actually are, through this Zoom event, we are more deeply connected with many beings. More people are part of our sangha. And when we find our new temple there, we will continue to have this online presence that allows people to come from a distance. Going back to Ancestor Dogen's words for arousing vow, he says, although our previous evil karma has greatly accumulated, producing causes and conditions that obstruct the way, may the Buddhas and ancestors who have attained the Buddha way be compassionate to us and liberate us from our karmic entanglements, allowing us to practice the way without hindrance. So this is about faith.

[21:06]

And he's calling on the Buddhas and ancestors. And in our scriptures, we have Buddhas from many different dimensions, many different solar systems, from Buddhas and Bodhisattvas popping out from under the ground. Buddhas and Bodhisattvas everywhere to help us and for us to support, and also ancestors to look back and be inspired by. Our great Zen ancestors, we sometimes chant their names, but also the ancestors of culturally who support us in our various activities. But he talks about our previous evil karma greatly accumulated, producing causes and conditions. So part of the practice of faith is to be willing to look at that, to trust that we can do that, to trust that we can see all of our different

[22:11]

graspings and anger and aversion and know how to respond to them without being caught. This is a big part of the work of Zen practice and the faith of Zen practice. So, and then at the end of this chant, Dogen says, quietly studying and mastering these causes and conditions, one is fully informed by the verified Buddhas. So faith includes allowing ourselves and each other to be informed, to be confirmed, to be aware of all the Buddha beings in our world, on our seat, all around us, this awakening mind that is always present and that we need to actually engage.

[23:17]

It's not enough to think that it's, oh, it's there so I don't have to do anything about it. This is, again, this faith is active faith, active practice. With this kind of repentance, Dogen goes on and talking about the importance of repentance in our practice. So we'll chant about the ancient Twisted Karmas after this. With this kind of repentance, certainly will come the inconceivable guidance of Buddha ancestors. So a big part of faith in our Zen practice is that there is this inconceivable guidance. In one of his writings, Dogen talks about how the person in Zazen and the environment, grasses and trees, mountains and rivers, and even fences and walls, things that we may think of as inanimate, support us and we support them. This is a radical claim. He says it's inconceivable,

[24:20]

we can't understand it with our conceptions, but this is Dogen's claim about Zazen and I think many of us get some sense of that, that the world offers us support and our practice supports the world in ways that we can't necessarily be aware of. Then Dogen says, confessing to Buddha with mindful heart and dignified body, this upright mind and body, the strength of this confession will eradicate the roots of wrongdoing. This is the one color of true practice, the true mind of faith, the true body of faith. So our faith is about facing the reality,

[25:22]

acknowledging the reality of our limited human awareness and habits, but also with this sense of this awakening heart that goes beyond. So this is a little bit about faith and what faith means in Zen particularly and in Buddhism. Of course, there's always much more to say and of course, whatever we say doesn't get it. So, but we babble, you know, I sit up here babbling on anyway sometimes, but I'm going to stop now and I want to welcome your comments, your responses, your questions. So David Ray, would you help me?

[26:25]

People who are visible can just raise your hands. You can also go down to the participant window and click on that and down at the bottom of that, there's an option to raise hands. So you can raise your hand that way or you can raise your hand physically and I'm really interested in your comments or questions or responses to this Zen way of understanding faith. Please feel free. Thank you. And the seminary students are welcome to ask questions too. This may not be how you think of faith particularly. Again, I have a question, I can't call on myself.

[27:28]

Yes, you can. Oh, well, as a Zoom host, technically I can't, but I'd like to ask you about the category of skepticism. You know, in Western thinking, there are lots of different versions of it and somebody might say, well, Buddhist faith sounds pretty skeptical because it doesn't invite me to, you know, as it were, believe anything on faith or, you know, assent the truth value of something that I don't know. So I'm guessing that the thing that's translated as skepticism probably means something a little different from what I might be thinking in Dogen's text. Is it like, is it negative kind of skepticism or something else? Yeah. So part of our faith, and thank you, this reminds me of an important piece of this. Part of our faith is questioning. So don't take what I have said about faith on faith. Please feel free to ask questions. And part, a big part of our practice is that we have questions

[28:30]

and the whole, and the body of Zen literature, all those teaching stories and the koans are about students asking questions to their teachers or teachers asking questions to other teachers. So yes, questioning is important and even in some, sometimes some doubt maybe, but there's different kinds of questioning. So I wrote a book called Zen Questions, which talks about this at great length. So you can look at that. But the questioning is our faith that we are willing to question. We don't believe something because we hear it in some Dharma talk or we read it in some Sutra. Buddhism is very empirical. Does it work in our lives? But there are different kinds of questioning. So skepticism, skeptical questions are questions that maybe take away our faith

[29:44]

that make us feel like our commitment, our vows, our practices is not helpful, that there's nothing we can do, that it's easy to feel like the world is such a mess now, that there's nothing helpful to be done and so forth. And again, faith is not about knowing that we will fix things, but our positive activity and our positive awareness does have an effect. So it's fine to question this. In fact, we need to question this to develop faith. But, and faith includes this kind of questioning, but skepticism here is skeptical faith. There's a particular Sanskrit word for this. I forget exactly, vitarka, I'm not sure. Maybe he'll get to know us. But it's debilitating questioning. Questioning skepticism is questions or doubts

[30:47]

that kind of demean us. So that's my response. So Eve's hand went up and then Lori let me know that she has a question who gets it. So Eve, I think was first. Yeah, I wanna know more about the demeaning thing you just said. And I guess, I think what I've been looking for is faith that the small things matter. The things that we can control. I mean, I have a running, what feels like disagreement with one of my colleagues about systems thinking. And because she seems to think that, I mean, the only kind that matters is when you put people in a room from different sectors, education, jobs, health, all that. And you have the power to get people to talk

[31:51]

at that kind of high policy level. And I keep feeling like, well, we're not all in a position to do that. And a lot of the tools I'm interested in are more looking at what people can do like inside an organization or inside a team or for that matter of like, I mean, I can control how I respond to something. I can't control what anybody else does. Right, Eve, if I may, I think I get your question. Yeah, so that's a question. Yeah, so, I mean, you started off by asking, well, what about doing the small things that we can do? Do they have, do they matter? So the skeptical or demeaning kind of questioning would say, it doesn't matter what I do, nothing matters. So deep faith in cause and effect is that everything we, every action we do,

[32:53]

everything we say, all of our thoughts do have an effect. This is kind of basic law of cause and effect, the basic law of karma. And of course we're not, it's not just about our personal karma. So we're all beset now with the effects of many causes in our society. So we have a common karma, collective karma. But yes, to your basic question as I hear it is that yes, we, the little things we do have an impact. And we don't, and usually we don't see them. And thinking that, oh, if I do this good thing, there should be some visible effect. That's not how it works. Change happens thanks to many, many, many causes and conditions, suddenly peace breaks out

[33:54]

or suddenly the Berlin Wall comes down or apartheid ends or gay marriage is allowed. All kinds of things happen suddenly thanks to many, many, many, many causes and conditions. So each thing that we do, and this applies to our personal life too, has an impact and we can't track it. It's inconceivable. We don't understand how, sometimes it's obvious. There's something that happens and there's an immediate effect. That happens sometimes. Most of the time, we just don't see it. But faith is faith that even the little things we do have some effect. And if, and all of us working together have larger effects. So thank you for that question very much. Hougetsu had a question or comment. Yes, thank you, Taigen. I couldn't find my hand. I apologize for that. That's all right. I guess I just, I have a hand here. I see it.

[34:54]

So thank you for bringing up the ehekoso hatsugamon dogons gebao. And I've often wondered about this line, although my past evil karma, what is evil like in Zen? How is that understood in Zen in particular? Well, there's, yeah. And this is my translation. If I was doing it again, I might find a different word because, you know, in the process of translation. So I've done a lot of translation of Dogon and other Buddhist texts that it's challenging because words we use in English like faith have a different meaning for, in much of how it's understood in the West and Western religion than what I've just been talking about, right? So evil the same way. There's no original sin. There's no, you know, force of evil in the world. There's no Satan, according to Buddhism.

[35:58]

There's Mara, who's a spirit of temptation. It's different. So evil here means harmful or maybe very harmful, destructive. It doesn't mean, so, and there is a Chinese character that could be translated as evil, but in terms of Buddhist and Zen ideas, it means something that causes great harm. It's not some, just like there's not some deity to call on. It's not some, you know, external force, Lucifer or Satan or whatever in the West and some Western traditions. It's not some absolute evil. It's just very harmful causes and conditions. And to confess those is to acknowledge them. And then the practice is, well, what do we do to help make,

[36:59]

help use our awareness of that to be helpful? How do we help rather than cause further harm? Does that cover your question? I think so. You know, like I thought about how does, because sometimes a word like unwholesome comes up around karma, but evil is, I don't see it very often. And, you know, other people have translated ehekuso hatsugamon with this word evil in that position. So I was, you know, it's just interesting to me. Yeah, unwholesome is another word for this, but maybe not strong enough, you know? And that Chinese character is translatable as evil, but it's not evil ontologically in, you know, the Western sense. It's just really bad actions or thoughts or speech,

[38:03]

hate speech, you know, hate speech that encourages terrorist activity against certain beings or people. That's, it's that kind of thing. So we could say that's evil, but anyway, it's not about some evil being somewhere out there in the world. So thank you for your question. Nicholas was next and then Danushka. Nicholas, hi. Nicholas, you're muted if you're speaking and I can't see you, but I want to hear your question. Hi, good morning. Good morning. Thanks for your talk on faiths. I wanted to say something because one of the gifts

[39:05]

of the pandemic for me has been that I've been able to, there's been an increase in my ability to have faith. And, you know, I worked in an industry that was decimated by the pandemic and felt for many months that my entire life was circling the drain. And the only thing I felt that I could do was turn to the practice. And so that's what I did. And I just really dove into, you know, more Zazen on a daily basis than I've ever done in my life. Other practices as well. And felt like the only thing that I could really offer my future was my spiritual fitness in the here and now.

[40:12]

And so that's what I did. And slowly by slowly, you know, step by step, things started to work out. Programs started to open up, you know, everything started to shift, you know, over time. And as I was available because of my practice, I was able to, you know, access a lot of help. And that, you know, so that it's, and that it wasn't about me fixing anything. So, you know, I've been a fixer my entire life, fix myself, fix other people, fix, you know, just fix, fix, fix, fix managing control. You're the one. Yeah, and so what I realized was that I'm really not doing anything ever, you know,

[41:17]

and it's a whole delusion to think that I'm doing much at all, frankly. So, and it was just, it's just been so great to really deepen my trust in that, in the process of that I'm a part of nature and that I can just focus on being awake and everything will take care of itself. Thank you so much for your talk. Thank you, Nicholas, for your testimony. Part of faith in cause and effect is faith in change. There's one way in which everything is permanent. We're just here. But that permanence includes that events and phenomena shift and change and move. Rivers and mountains flow.

[42:19]

So being, so faith is about being resilient and steady and then when the flow of change appears, we can respond from a place that's more settled. So thank you very much, Nicholas. I'm glad you're doing better. Dhanushka. Yeah, thank you for your wonderful Dhamma. I am Dhanushka Dilshan. I'm from McCormick Theological Seminary and originally I'm from- Please speak more slowly, I can't follow. Yeah, originally I'm from Sri Lanka. Thank you for your wonderful Dhamma. I have two questions based on faith, especially Buddhist faith. How in Buddhist faith connect with what is secret? What is sacred? Secret, yeah. Secret. Yeah. And the second one- Wait, I'm sorry, I wasn't sure what that word was. How does Buddhist faith connect with what is sacred?

[43:22]

Is that what your question is? Secret, yeah. S-E-R-C-R-E-T. Oh, secret. Yeah. Oh, good, good, good, yes. Yeah, that's important. The other one, how does Buddhist faith tradition view the religious others? What do you mean by religious others? Other religions or other faith traditions. Oh, good, interfaith. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, excuse me, two good questions. So first, there's a branch of Japanese Buddhism called Mikyo, which is about, secret sometimes is translated to secret or mysterious teachings. Faith is an important question. Thank you. And thank you for asking it. So it helps me clarify something. That faith goes deeper than just,

[44:24]

the physical phenomenal world as we understand it with our limited human capacities. When Dogen talks about inconceivable guidance, he's talking about this. So there are branches of Buddhism called Vajrayana, which are about, this kind of, what's sometimes called hidden practice. And faith is, very much connects with, these, non-apparent, events or activities or realities in the world. This is in some ways the heart of faith, that we see that there is, that we trust, that we're committed to something that goes beyond, what is obvious, what we think is the reality, based on our just limited human capacities.

[45:27]

Even if we're very well-educated and very smart and very, knowledgeable about a lot of things, there's a limit to what we can know, given our human limitations. But faith is trust that there is something deeper. And we can have a sense of it. We get glimpses of it, or sometimes we get very clear visions of it. But, faith or commitment or vow in this sense that I'm talking about in Buddhism is about, is exactly about being open to that. So thank you for your question. Secret is one word. It's also that which is mysterious, that which is, that goes beyond. So, yeah, esoteric is a word that's used. So our practice and Soto Zen practice is very much as connected to this mikyo or esoteric background

[46:31]

of all of Japanese Buddhism. And of course it goes back to original Buddhism too. The Buddha did not answer some questions because they weren't particularly relevant to practical helpfulness. But, he didn't deny that there are deeper realities. And in the Mahayana Bodhisattva Sutras, there are many fascinating visionary examples of Buddha's Bodhisattva's awakening beings, other beings who exist in other dimensions that we are not aware of and come to hear the Buddha. So yes, that which is quote unquote secret is very much part of what are we trust and part of this faith that I'm talking about. So thank you for that question. Your other question was about relating to other

[47:33]

kinds of teachings. And, you know, so I can't speak for all of Buddhism and for even for all of Soto Zen, but even though I'm an authorized teacher in Japanese and American Soto Zen, but yeah, in the modern context, we are very concerned with interfaith work and connecting with other spiritual perspectives. So I'm very glad that Professor Cathy is here with his students and from a different perspective and listening to our perspective. But that doesn't mean that I don't respect other perspectives on what is reality? What does it mean to be helpful? How do we see the deeper realities? So, especially now with all of the hate speech that's part of our culture,

[48:37]

attacking Muslims, attacking Asian-Americans now, of course, attacking black people. It's so important that we talk together from different spiritual traditions. And we don't have to, you know, this is a practice, engaging with spiritual others. It's not that we are trying to persuade or convince or convert others to agree with our perspective. It's about listening to the plurality of perspectives. And I have been a professor of history of religions and taught about other religions and in others, I find, personally, I find in other spiritual traditions and in other branches of Buddhism, things that are very valuable that help me, help inform what it means that I'm a Soto Zen teacher. So listening to each other is

[49:40]

an extremely helpful practice. And it's part of a deeper faith that our faith is not as opposed to other versions of faith. So thank you for that question as well. Paul MacArthur has a question and then I see Jenny's hand and Juan Pablo's hand. Excuse me. Yes, thank you for your teaching on faith. You mentioned that the world offers us support. I'm taking a very interesting course called Forest Spirituality. And I'm interested in forests. Forest Spirituality, yes, yay. I'm interested in how Buddhism addresses the connectedness of humans to nature. We are required in this class to practice connectedness to trees.

[50:43]

And we were asked to find five tree friends and visit them five times before May 1st. I visited twice and we are to view the tree and then listen to the tree to see if it's talking. And I'm now hearing the trees talk. So how does Buddhism address this connectedness? Wonderful question and that's a wonderful practice. So I would encourage all of my students to go out and befriend trees and listen to five trees. I'm not very good at foreign languages myself. So I don't know that I would understand the language the trees speak to us with, but I know that they speak to us. So Buddhism particularly is non-anthropomorphic.

[51:47]

It's not about human beings. We talk about all sentient beings. And sentient is a controversial word. So we know now that trees and forests are intelligent, that forests are an ecospecies that actually have awareness and that trees of different species actually within a forest connect with each other. And there's wonderful information now about how, well, some of it is through fungi under, I forget the term, that there are channels of communication within a forest, maybe between different forests, where trees can actually give information and support and listen to each other. So part of what, so Dogen particularly talks about Buddha nature

[52:51]

and he talks about all beings, Buddha nature. And so Buddhism generally and Zen particularly is again, not about just human beings. Of course, it includes human beings. Here we are, we're all more or less human beings. So we pay attention to what goes on with human beings but Buddhism going back to its very beginning, the Buddha sat under a Bodhi tree and awakened. And one of the stories about that is when he saw the morning star, he touched the earth and the earth witnessed that he was, yes, an awakened person, awakened one, a Buddha. And sometimes it says an earth goddess appeared to confirm this. And there are practices of, in Buddhism, of planting trees, very important. And of actually in, I think in Thailand,

[53:57]

there have been monks who ordained trees, made trees, priests or monks and robed them to prevent loggers from cutting them down because the loggers were nominally Buddhist and they wouldn't cut down a tree that was actually a monk. So there's a long, long, long tradition in Buddhism of connecting to all beings beyond all sentient beings, of course. Animals and plants that we now know are intelligent and sentient and even mountains and rivers. So one of Dogen's famous texts is the Mountains and Water Sutra where he talks about how mountains flow. And so, yes, this is very, very basic to Buddhism. And, you know, it's related to faith

[54:57]

because our commitment and our vow and our trust in reality in Zen practice and in Buddhism is that we are connected to all these beings, including the trees around us and that they support us. One of Dogen's first writings, he talked about when one person, just to paraphrase, when one person sits in Zazen even for a little while, all of reality awakens, including grasses and trees, mountains and waters, the earth and fences and tiles. So our connection to the phenomenal world is essential to our practice. So thank you for your question. I could keep talking about this for some hours, but I'll stop because there are other people who have comments or questions, including Juan Pablo, who's an expert in forest awareness.

[56:01]

But I think Jenny is first. So Jenny, you have a comment or question? Yes, thank you. You used a phrase in your talk that really caught my imagination, and that is dharma gates. And so I was wondering, is that just anything that points you along the way of the dharma, or is there something more specific about that? Thank you for asking that. Yeah, so in some versions it's just, you know, dharma teachings, sutras are boundless. We vow to study them. Excuse me. But I think we understand that more widely. So each situation can be a dharma gate, can be a gateway to, dharma means the teaching, specific teachings, Buddhist teachings. It also means truth. It also means reality itself, or the truth about reality. So for Nicholas, the pandemic has been a dharma gate.

[57:03]

It's helped support him in his practice. So if we look at trees as an opportunity to understand deeper reality, the trees and the forests become a dharma gate. So how do we live in our world and use any situation that appears, and any difficulty that appears as a potential dharma gate, potential gateway to dharma? And aren't the name, Ancient Dragon Zen Gate, which is the name of our sangha, is, comes from an old Chinese story, or, well, account that there were, I forget which river it is. Maybe it's the Yellow River in China, but a particular river, there was a gateway at the bottom of the river.

[58:07]

And when fish swam through that gateway, they would emerge as dragons. That's one dharma gate. And I know we use that name for our temple because I don't know, it hasn't been verified, but I wonder if there might be similar dragon gates in Lake Michigan, near us in Chicago, so yes. Disappearances there, there might be. Yeah, and fish emerged as dragons, which are great beings to support, in Asian culture anyway, not necessarily in Christian lore, but in Asian culture, dragons are great beings who help support the teaching. Thank you for your question. Juan Pablo is next. Yes, hi everyone. I have three points that I want to share with you.

[59:14]

One is about the practice of satsang and faith, because sometimes we believe that when we do meditation, it's not related to faith, but I remember one Tibetan teacher that I had, that he was explaining a little bit about Mahamudra and Sokshen, which are Tibetan practices very related to Shikantaza. And he said, the deepest faith is in Mahamudra and Sokshen. And it's very different from some characteristics of what some scholars call Buddhist exceptionalism or Buddhist modernisms, who relates meditation to science. So this is the first point I wanted to make. And the second point is that you say that our practice, we are supported by the world, from the world to our practice,

[60:18]

but how do you see or practice supports the world? How that is connection made? And the third point, it's about skepticism. I don't know if you know that skepticism was a Greek school, Greek and Roman school in ancient philosophy. And I think it's related to faith because when we consider or practice not related to some certainty, but to faith, we are open that there are other gates, there are other ways. So I don't think skepticism diminishes or I don't know, or practice or faith, but I think skepticism is healthy to know that there are other ways. We don't have certainty in our practice.

[61:20]

We are open to see other ways as possible. So that's my, that's the third point. And the last one about forest spirituality, there's one beautiful book from Richard Powers called The Other Story, which I strongly recommend. So that's all. Yeah. Thank you, Juan Pablo. And Juan Pablo particularly is a great scholar of forest spiritualities and is coming to us from the southernmost part of Argentina. So it's great to see you again. I want to respond to your last question first. So this is a problem of translations. If you use the English word skepticism, I'm trying to translate a particular Buddhist issue of doubt or questioning,

[62:23]

or it goes back to Sanskrit. So I don't mean to connect that with what David Ray can tell us about the Greek or Roman versions of the school of skeptics. So again, this is a problem of translation. It's always a problem. Any English word you use has all these overtones in our Western culture. But going back to Zen questions, yes, exactly what you said, and I don't associate it with skepticism, but just questioning, that questioning is an essential part of faith in terms of the faith I'm talking about, that we have to wonder and question, and we don't learn anything if we don't question. So going to your first question about science and talking about Zazen,

[63:24]

there are people who are tracing the neurological patterns in our brain when we do meditation and all of that, but that doesn't negate questioning. In fact, science is exactly about questioning. Science is about, the scientific method is about making hypotheses, about having theories, but then testing it empirically. And so to me, that's exactly what faith is about in terms of the faith I'm talking about. It's not contrary to science. It's about looking at reality, looking at awareness, looking at how we function helpfully in the world. And so we try things.

[64:25]

So I would, one analog to science in Buddhist teaching is skillful means. The Lotus Sutra is a big source of that, but skillful means is that we try things, trial and error, and for different beings, for different people, maybe for trees, for forests, for mountains, different teachings may be helpful. So we have to look at what is skillful, what is helpful, what helps to foster awakening, to foster liberation, to foster kindness and compassion. And we try different things and some things work and some things don't work, and then we try other things. So that's the practice, the Bodhisattva practice of skillful means. So I think that's very much related to scientific method, to looking to see how we understand the world. And science is supposedly objective,

[65:27]

but actually in science now, Heisenberg principle and other scientific, current scientific awarenesses have shown that when someone observes a phenomena, it changes the phenomena. There is no outside objective ultimate phenomena that we are relating to. Our engagement with reality, according to science, changes reality. The observer of a phenomena changes that phenomena, how that observation works. This is a quote unquote scientific analog to the very process I was talking about in Zen of inconceivable guidance. We are supported by forests and trees. We can be informed by forests and trees.

[66:30]

We don't know how that works exactly. Scientists are actually developing some awareness of how that works and how trees in a forest communicate or inform each other. But yeah, so science is not contrary to the kind of faith I'm talking about. And then you had another question about supporting the world or being supported by the world. And I think that goes back to what I was just saying, that our engagement with the world changes us as well as our engagement with the world changes the world. So if we're questioning and listening to the trees and to other people, we start to, we become more informed about ourselves and about reality. So thank you very much Juan Pablo. There are a number of other questions. I don't know if there's anybody who's raised their hand visibly that I might've missed. David Ray, do you?

[67:31]

Joe Kai and then Chris, I think. Okay. So Joe Kai, your turn. Good morning. My question is about the role of teachers in faith and how far as a student that faith should extend to the teacher. Should we have complete trust in everything that a teacher's doing? Or, I mean, if we're not having that complete trust, I guess, how do you continue that sort of relationship where it kind of requires like a really robust kind of conversation between the teacher and student? How do you, yeah. I mean, could you just elaborate on that role of faith in the student teacher relationship? Thank you for that question. Yes.

[68:31]

So it's, in Zen particularly, it's important to have a teacher. And we have many practice leaders and officially sanctioned Dharma teachers at Ancient Dragon Zen Gate. And Douglas, who's not here today, often encourages people to contact info at ancientdragon.org and ask for discussion. Again, it's not what we might call blind faith. It's a mutual process, teacher and student. It's about being open to listening, to giving feedback. So my job as a teacher is to give feedback to students when they're leaning one, leaning too far in one direction or another to put it that way. Another way to think of teachers is spiritual friends.

[69:40]

So it's not, that's more of the way I think in Zen, as opposed to, you know, a kind of guru model, which happens in some branches of Buddhism. But we've seen in the West that that blind faith, to put it that way, a blind trust in teachers is not so helpful. So if anybody has questions about what I'm doing or what I've said, I encourage you to ask me. And so my position as teacher means that I'm available to receive feedback, but also I check with you if you're available to receive feedback from me. So this idea of spiritual friend is an old model in Buddhism of what a teacher is. And again, it's not, faith is like in total belief. It's not a matter of anything I say, you should just assume that's true.

[70:42]

Just like in scientific method or, you know, to see if it works for you. So I hope that's responsive. Anything else, Jokai, for follow-up? I mean, if it's, no, you answered my question, thank you. Okay, I don't see any hands up. Chris. Chris, yes, go ahead, Chris. Thank you again for your dharma. I wanted to ask you a question that I'm not familiar with. But you mentioned something that Brian Taylor said in a talk recently about faith that I found helpful. And I wanted to ask for your comments that faith is more than a thing is really a verb. It's an action. So rather than faith, it's faithing.

[71:43]

Likewise, I don't have sit, I'm sitting. I don't have zazen, I'm practicing zazen. So that the activity of it, faith, rather than something that I have, I think is helpful, at least for me. And I appreciate your comments, thank you. Yes, yes, yes, I totally agree. So I like gerunds because they're active. So faith is not a thing to get. Faith is not some object to acquire or to act on. Yeah, it's, as I tried to say at the beginning, active faith, it's an activity. It's a way of being. So yes, and in fact, in Buddhism, there are no now, there are no objects. Again, all of this has to do with how do we translate

[72:46]

different traditions into different languages where there's a, where the new language has various biases. So faith is an activity. It's not something to act on. Japanese is kind of cool this way because any noun you have, you could add suru at the end and make it a verb. So fit, I forget which would be the Japanese word for faith, but shin is the sign of Japanese. But anyway, faith suru means to do faith. So Japanese is very convenient that way. Not that that's always how it's used, but yeah, everything we think of as a thing is actually alive. That's part of the point. And that goes back to Paul MacArthur's question about trees and about the so-called, the so-called non, well, non-humans.

[73:49]

The non-anthropomorphic aspect of this, which is that everything is alive. The mountains and rivers, you know, are, we've already confounded our sense of intelligence by learning about the awareness and communications and interactions of trees and forests as in the book, The Overstory, and more nonfiction scientific books that have come out recently. But everything is like that. So yeah, to go and find a tree that you can commune with and listen to, I would say if you find a rock, you could listen to that rock. Rocks may have stories to tell us. One of the things that, nice things about the Zen rock gardens in Japan is that you can see rocks that have obviously been through some stuff

[74:50]

and you might listen to them too. But of course we also listen to each other as human beings because most of the time we're just human beings. So yeah, thank you for that, Chris. Eva Marie. Hi, thank you for your Dharma. I have a question regarding meditation. Is it different from the Mahayana tradition? Is it different from Theravada tradition or other Buddhist tradition? Or is it like just one way of doing meditation or there are several steps? Yes, so the practice we do here coming from the Soto Zen Japanese tradition of just sitting includes many of the other kinds of meditations. So there are whole huge libraries

[75:53]

full of different teachings about meditation. And there are different branches of meditation within Buddhism and different approaches. And different approaches are helpful to different people. And part of that is the intention. So in Mahayana Bodhisattva meditation, we're sitting with all beings to benefit all beings. Of course, we're part of the all beings, there's in Theravada, it seems like the primary direction is personal liberation. And that's very important. That's part of our Zazen as well. So anyway, I can get technical about this. There's technically in Soto Zen, our Zazen is objectless meditation.

[76:55]

We're not focusing on a particular object. We're just sitting and being present. Thoughts and feelings come and they go. We pay attention to it all. We're not trying to reach some particular objective either. We're just aware. We're just paying attention, whatever's going on. If we're sleepy, we pay attention to that. If our mind is racing around, we pay attention to that. We breathe and we let go of whatever thoughts and feelings. So anyway, that's the objectless meditation that is the ideal in Soto Zen. But practically speaking, there are libraries full of meditation objects, samadhi objects, concentration objects. The breath is a good one. Just physical sensations is another. Sound is another, ambient sound. But also mantras or lines from the teaching we can use. And I encourage people even in our Zazen

[77:57]

to use those when they're helpful without focusing on them. So there's one more question and then I want to start wrapping up. So Krista. Hi, thank you so much for your Dharma. I was wondering in regards to meditation, I know you were speaking about chanting and then also calling on the Buddhist ancestors. Is that a sense of like chanting the names of the Buddhist ancestors as well? Is it something that's done specifically within meditation? Is it done outside of meditation? And how is that practiced outside of meditation, if so? Well, I wouldn't say it's outside meditation, but formally it's after. So what we do and what we're about to do after meditation and Dharma talk, we will do a particular chant. Today, the Heikosuotsuganmon that I spoke about. And we do those chantings.

[79:00]

And there are chants where we name the Buddha ancestors going back to Shakyamuni, up through Dogen and actually to Shunryu Suzuki Roshi, the founder of our branch of Zen in America. So we do have those chants, but we also have, we have many, many other chants. So if you go to Ancient Dragons Zen Gate and look for chants in the sidebar, I think it might be under teachings, you'll find many different chants that we do. And we do those after meditation, but it's not separate from meditation. It's not other than meditation. So thank you for that question. And I think we should close, but since there are all these people visiting us from Hyde Park and from the McCormick Seminary, is Brian still here? Oh no, he's not. Okay, well, I want to mention that, and I'm not sure if I see anybody else

[80:01]

from our Hyde Park group, but we have a Wednesday afternoon event. It used to be before the pandemic in Rockefeller Chapel, which those of you in Hyde Park know. Now it's online and you can go to our, it's every Wednesday, I think from five, is Zen and then there's a talk at six. So for our Hyde Park visitors, I just want to mention that. There's a different Zoom link, but if you go to our website and look for Wednesday, you'll find that. So thank you all. Please feel free to come again. We will now, David Ray, if you would lead us in chanting. Thank you. Thank you, Tai-Gan. I will mute everybody if I may, so that we can all chant, but not that the unison doesn't work during Zoom. As I mentioned, I have new chant texts.

[81:05]

Let me see if I can make these both be full screen. If I may, I'll just mention that there are two mudras or hand positions that we use during the chant. One is gassho, and it looks like this. And the other one is called cosmic mudra or buddha mudra, and it looks like that. One set of fingertips is under the other fingertips, and then the two thumb tips are touching each other. Just thought I would mention that in case these are new to people. David, if I may, just to add about those two mudras, the important point about the cause, an important point about the cosmic mudra like this is that you hold it against your abdomen, not out in front. So that helps with the meditation. And that picture isn't really the best for the gassho. The way we do it in our tradition, the hands are, the fingertips are at nose height and just apart from, hands width apart from our face,

[82:06]

and we bow like that. So thank you. Thank you, Taigen. I'll keep searching and find a better gassho picture. Thank you. And we begin with the repentance first chanted three times. All my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion born through body, speech, and mind, I now fully avow all my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion born through body, speech, and mind, I now fully avow all my ancient twisted karma from beginningless greed, hate, and delusion born through body, speech, and mind, I now fully avow.

[83:08]

Ehekosuhotsugamon We vow together with all beings from this life on throughout numerous lifetimes not to fail to hear the true Dharma. Hearing this, we will not be skeptical and will not be without faith. Directly upon encountering the true Dharma, we will abandon mundane affairs and uphold and maintain the Buddha Dharma. And finally, together with the great earth and all animate beings, we will accomplish the way. Although our previous evil karma has greatly accumulated, producing causes and conditions that obstruct the way, may the Buddhas and ancestors who have attained the Buddha way be compassionate to us and liberate us from our karmic entanglements, allowing us to practice the way without hindrance. May the merit and virtue of their Dharma gate

[84:19]

fill and refresh the inexhaustible Dharma realm so that they share with us their compassion. Ancient Buddhas and ancestors were as we, we shall come to be Buddhas and ancestors. Venerating Buddhas and ancestors, we are one with Buddhas and ancestors. Contemplating awakening mind, we are one with awakened mind. Compassionately admitting seven and accomplishing eight, obtains advantage and let's go of advantage. Accordingly, Longya said, what in past lives was not yet complete, now must be complete. In this life, save the body coming from accumulated lives. Before enlightenment, ancient Buddhas were the same as we. After enlightenment, we will be exactly as those ancient ones. Quietly studying and mastering these causes and conditions,

[85:21]

one is fully informed by the verified Buddhas. With this kind of repentance, certainly will come the inconceivable guidance of Buddha ancestors. Confessing to Buddha with mindful heart and dignified body, the strength of this confession will eradicate the roots of wrongdoing. This is one color of true practice of the true mind of faith, of the true body of faith. May all awakened beings extend with true compassion, their luminous mirror wisdom. With full awareness, we have chanted, hey, hey, Kosu, Hotsu, Ganmon. We dedicate this merit to our original ancestor in India, great teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha. Our first woman ancestor, great teacher, Mahaprajapati. Our first ancestor in China, great teacher, Bodhidharma.

[86:26]

Our first ancestor in Japan, great teacher, Eihei Dogen. Our first ancestor in America, great teacher, Shogaku Shunryu. The perfect wisdom, Bodhisattva Manjushri. To the complete recovery from illness of Vivian Garrett, Bob Finn, Allison Snow Wesley and Fred Wesley. The Mercers in Virginia, James Floyd, Mara Sanders, Michael Weisbrod, Richelle Weisbrod, Jerry Lazars, Stephen Cain, Betsy Delahunt, Charlotte Iannone, Jacob Blake, Jeff Shepard, Mary Shepard, Josh Becker, Susan and Albert Easton, Michael Soter, Sophia Wolanski, Susanna Taylor, Bill Olinger, Jeremy Hammond, Jackie Floyd, Rebecca and Cole Lindbergh, Avery Miller, Matt West,

[87:31]

Marla Weiner, Tom Kelly, Jody Kretzmann, Joey Wizorek, Lisa Farroquian, Carol Portnoy, Leonard Pelletier, Charlie Finlayson, Steve Haloff, Beth Joyner, Kyle D. Wade, Katherine Risser, Virginia Van Curen, Chris Summers, Dennis Olson, Jim Abrams, Lynn Easton, Jean Annaport, Barbara Maris, Kate Lamothe, Paul Baker, Jenny Obst, Matt Wolfe, Fred Mecklenburg, Ed Bossler, Brielle Ho, Iris Bestow, Janet Lin, Carla Randall, Gary Wilson, Robert French, Shauna Ellis, Gil Yong Suh, Shelby Carter, Mary Mandarino, Joe Villareal, Rachel Stein, Henry Tragart, Dolores Maria Robles-Lee, Norman Hughes, Bart Colopy,

[88:36]

Lin Shan Zhang, Zoe Nyssa, Brenda Grose, Kathy Fleming, Howard Polak, Pat Polak, Faustino Dionizio Jr., Frank Ostaseski, Diane Martin, Jeff Bridges, Shosan Vicky Austin, Thich Nhat Hanh, Kondo Nakajima Roshi, Jarvis Masters, and all residents of San Quentin Prison, victims of gun violence, people under drone attack, all in the fracking zones, all facing fire and drought in California, all those threatened by the coronavirus, Amazonian and other indigenous peoples threatened by corporate invasion, Lake Michigan and the Chicago River, peoples of the Mideast, and to all those who are lacking shelter, food, or safety, are suffering from physical or emotional distress, or are exposed to violence of any kind,

[89:39]

and to the fulfillment of all members of all sanghas, gratefully, we offer this virtue to all beings, all Buddhas throughout space and time, all honored ones, bodhisattvas, mahasattvas, wisdom beyond wisdom, mahaprajnaparamita. Thank you. Thank you, everyone. And now we'll have announcements.

[90:41]

Thank you, David. So one announcement for the people joining us from Cormac Seminary, you're welcome to come to other events at Ancient Dragons Zen Gate. Check our website for information. I want to specifically mention a few, a number of upcoming events, special events. Tomorrow evening for our Monday evening meditation, we'll be joined by Florence Kaplow as the guest speaker. Florence is both a Soto Zen priest and a Unitarian Universalist minister, speaking of inter-faith activity. She's the minister of the Unitarian Church down in, where is it? Oh, Urbana-Champaign, yes, sorry. And Florence is, in addition to being a minister in two traditions, she's an economic activist, and she's the co-editor of a wonderful book

[91:44]

called The Hidden Lamp, which gives information about, and stories about great women teachers and practitioners from the Buddhist time to the present. So very wonderful book, The Hidden Lamp. Okay, other upcoming events. Next, is it next Sunday, April 4th? Aishan will be, Aishan Enzi Easton, one of our teachers here, will be leading a half-day sitting. So there will be the regular Sunday morning program. You can just come to the Zazen period before the Dharma Talk and to Aishan's Dharma Talk. But for people who want to get some deeper experience of this Zazen meditation, you can email info at ancientdragon.org, either to register or to get more information. And Aishan, can you say what the timing is of the half-day sitting? I think it's about 7.30 to noon, or possibly 12.30. I'm still working out the exact schedule. But as you said, people who would like to join

[92:47]

for our regular Sunday morning program can join our meditation at 9.30 and then the Dharma Talk. And so thank you, Aishan. And that's an opportunity to have a deeper experience of meditation and Zazen. So you're all welcome to do that. Then upcoming after that, I'll be talking about Buddha's birthday the following Sunday, April 11th. April 18th, we have another wonderful guest teacher, Hosan Alan Sanaki, an old friend who has had his Mountain Seat Ceremony and is now the teacher, the abbot at Berkeley Zen Center, one of the largest and most important Zen temples in our lineage. So that's April 18th, Alan Sanaki will be teaching again. And then April 25th, the last Sunday in April, I want to encourage you to attend. Chenxing Han, who was a former student of mine

[93:49]

at Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley has a wonderful new book out. I don't know if you can see it, Be the Refuge. It's about the caption, subtitle, Raising the Voices of Asian-American Buddhists. It's an interviews and survey of Asian-American Buddhists. And for our mostly convert Sangha, the majority of American Buddhists are still Asian-American in Asian-American temples and Sanghas and congregations. And this is especially important for us now as there has been this wave of hate crimes against Asian-Americans and even vandalism of Asian-American temples. So this is a wonderful book by Chenxing Han and she'll be talking about that. That's the last Sunday in April. And I'll also mentioned since we have many other guests here today,

[94:50]

the first Sunday in May, May 2nd, Stephen Hein, another old friend who is the preeminent scholar of Dogen and of Koans in America will be here again speaking. So that's Sunday morning, May 2nd. So other announcements, anyone? Yes, Dylan. I also, just from the board, a reminder that Ancient Dragon Zen Gate is a collective project. We do this together. So if you're able to make a contribution to help out the Sangha, especially as we're about to go search for our new temple location, we greatly appreciate your support. You can make a contribution at ancientdragon.org. There's a button in the top right-hand corner. You can also choose to become a monthly donor if you'd like, and that just sets up an automatic donation

[95:51]

to support the temple regularly, as well as if you're new to the temple and you want to get more involved, there are many committees that you can help out with. If you want to just send an email to info at ancientdragon.org with what some of your strengths are, whatever they may be, I'm sure we would be able to find a place for you to be helpful. So thank you. Thank you for that, Dylan. Are there other announcements of upcoming events or anything? Well, maybe I'll just say again, and for many new people here today, please check our website at www.ancientdragon.org. I mentioned some of the highlights of upcoming events and speakers, but we have also Morning Zazen Monday through Friday and many other events. So please check the website and look and see what's there. And you're all welcome to come again.

[96:53]

So I think maybe that's it for announcements. We usually at this time formally end and people are free to leave, but we also, some of us hang out on the Zoom page. And if you have other questions or anything else you want to say or talk about faith or anything else, please feel free to stay and just hang out. But for those who have to leave, goodbye. And thank you for coming. Ah, so all of the seminarians have left. They did, that was so cool. So any other questions or comments or... Hi, Rona, how are you? I'm fine, thank you, Taigen. Idan is here also, he's a little head in the corner. Oh, oh, hi, hi, I see you over in the corner.

[97:56]

Hi. Hi. Yes. It's, no, no, I'm getting bigger. Oh, good for you. You came a little bit. How are you guys? Thank you, Taigen, for the talk. You're welcome. We're still here. It's getting warmer in Chicago, at least some days. So Alex, hey, Eve, hello. Anybody, any other, anything else anybody wants to ask or say or comment on or whatever? I have a question, Taigen. What does your practice or the tradition, what does it say about children? Like from what age should the child start practicing? Well, there's no minimum age.

[99:01]

I guess as soon as a child can sit up straight, they're welcome to. And we're, you know, children are welcome at our events. We, when we had our temple, we had regular, excuse me, children events on Buddha's birthday, which is happening next month, or on Chinese New Year or various times. We've had several times during the year, we'd have special children events where children were welcome to come into the Zen Do during Zazen, but there was also children events in the kitchen. And then they would join for the talk and we would, the children would be part of the discussion. When we have our new temple, I'm hoping we'll have a bigger space and children will, there'll be some kind of childcare available every Sunday. So, but yeah, there's no, in terms of the teaching, traditionally,

[100:05]

I don't know, I don't think it advocates eating children. I think children are sentient beings and some children are very bright, you know? And so, yeah, we, we support, and one of the things about, you know, our traditional root is kind of monastic, you know, the teachings we, excuse me, and forms that we have come from monastic practice, but especially in the West and modern Buddhism, we understand childcare and children as, and care and taking care of children as a Zen practice and also relationships. And, you know, so I often say to people who have children that their children are their teachers and that your spouse is your teacher also.

[101:10]

So, Yidan, you should pay attention to what Rona says and vice versa. So, relationships are a kind of arena for practice and we understand that in modern Zen practice. Thank you, Yidan. So, that's exciting, having a new space now that you're searching for. Yeah, we're starting a process, so it's gonna take a little while, but we'll see, we don't know. Okay. Maybe in Israel. I wish you had someone that came to Israel and we could like have a little Israeli sanga as well. Well, you know, I know that there are, I don't know if there are any Soto Zen places in Israel, but I know there are Zen places in Israel. There are Zen places, not Soto Zen. Okay, well, I will- They're not as good as you guys. Well, there's, that's not, that's a very high bar,

[102:14]

you know, it's just. I will inquire from the Soto Zen Buddhist Association. Are you in Haifa now? Yeah, it's near Haifa, yeah. Near Haifa. I will ask if any, because I, other Soto Zen teachers, if they know of any Soto Zen temples in Israel and I'll ask particularly- Thank you so much, thank you. I will ask that, ask that. And if you find a place where you can sit with others, that would be great. But please continue to come because we would miss you if you didn't. So thank you. Thank you. Other comments, questions, anything else before we stop? Well, I just wanted to say, I wanted to say hello again and congratulate you on your second vaccination. That's really great news. I had a question that I wasn't able to raise

[103:17]

during the talk, which is about faith. And, you know, you really sort of dipped your toe into the discussion about, you know, self-power versus other power or self-faith versus other faith. And then you talked a little bit about it in terms of your discussion of pure land and Buddhism. But I wonder if you had any more advice about how this, or suggestions about how the Soto tradition recommends we take those two types of faith into account. Yeah, so for those who have not heard of this, in Zen or Buddhist scholarship, excuse me, there's this idea of self-power and other power. This comes out of a pure land Buddhism where they call the name of Amida Buddha and they trust in Amida Buddha. I would, I could make the case

[104:19]

that that's not totally other power, but people from pure land Buddhism say that Zen is about self-power, that because of your own practice that then you can become liberated by yourself. Whereas in other power tradition, you trust in and rely on Amida Buddha or other Buddhas or Bodhisattvas. I think it's a false dichotomy myself. I think I wrote an article. I don't know if it's on our website about Soto Zen as other power practice, but really we are also entrusting Buddhas and ancestors and trusting Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. So in some sense, Soto Zen is also, I mean, I think it's a false dichotomy from my perspective as a Soto Zen teacher, but in some ways we're also other power and other power people are also self-power.

[105:22]

So Jodo Shinshu people who are, just as an example of other power practice, Jodo Shinshu was founded by Shinran who lived at the same time as Dogen a little later. And it's a really remarkable religious figure. Shinran's writings are just wonderful, but Shinran was a monk at Mount Hiei in the Tendai Center, which is where Dogen and Eisai, the founder of Rinzai Zen, and Honen, another Pure Land founder, and Nichiren who founded Nichiren Buddhism all started on Mount Hiei. And that's the Tendai school, which includes what somebody asked about, which was the esoteric aspect. They all started there, but Shinran had this just deep radical humility, which is really, you know, reading about Shinran,

[106:23]

he was really remarkable. He decided that the regular practice program on the Tendai program at Mount Hiei, he couldn't do it. It just was beyond him. He just did not have the power to do that. And he left Mount Hiei and he practiced for 90 days in a temple in Kyoto, actually across the street from a place where I taught English for a while. And he finally had this vision of Kannon, but he had this deep humility, and he said, I can't do anything by myself, by my own power. And so, you know, just backtrack, this idea of self-power is an idea from these Pure Land schools that Zen is about doing it all by yourself. And maybe that applies to some extent to Rinzai Zen or to early American Macho Soto Zen, but idea that Shinran had was that

[107:27]

he just couldn't do anything himself. And all he could do was call on Amida Buddha, Namo Amida Buddha, Namo Amida Buddha, and chant that. And thanks to Amida Buddha, he could be enlivened and awakened and be liberated. But he said he couldn't even chant Namo Amida Buddha without the support of Amida Buddha. He couldn't do that by himself. He was just, he just thought that he was just totally, personally, just totally worthless. He just couldn't do anything. So anyway, Shinran's a really interesting character and founder of Jodo Shinshu, which is this, I teach at the Jodo Shinshu Seminary in Berkeley. So, you know, there's now, I think modern, well, anyway, how I see it, modern American Buddhism, we can include many different perspectives. So I just don't think that,

[108:28]

you know, self-power and other power may be tendencies in particular.

[108:32]

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