Good morning. So to continue, we started yesterday talking about this story, Book of Serenity, Case 12. So I want to review that, and we'll see where we go. So the basic story, De Zong asked Shushan, where do you come from? Shushan said, from the South. De Zong said, how is Buddhism in the South these days? Shushan said, there is extensive discussion. De Zong said, How can that compare to me here planting the fields and making rice tea? Zhezun said, what can you do about the world? Zhezun said, what do you call the world? So a little background.

[01:07]

Maybe coincidental, but not irrelevant. It seems to me that Dizong is named after the temple where he taught. And Dizong is also the name of, in Chinese, of Jizou Bodhisattva, the earth storehouse, earth womb Bodhisattva. So Dizong works the earth. And so Shoshan's question, what do you do, what can you do about the world, has many implications, of course. A little bit of the background. from the commentary. So again, the cases and verses are written by Tianzong Hongzhe, the same guy who I translated in Cultivating the Empty Field. The introduction and commentaries are by Wansong, a later 13th century Chan master, Xiaodong Soto Chan master, who was up in Beijing in the north.

[02:13]

Anyway, Wansong said, the master of Shushan joined with Fayan, who later was the founder of one of the five schools of chant, Wadong, and the master of Jinshan to travel beyond the lake region in East Central China, coming to Zhang province. They were blocked by rain and snow and swollen valley streams, so they stayed at Dezang Temple. west of the city, and they hung around the fireplace and ignored De Zong, the master of the temple. De Zong wanted to test them, so he also drew near the fire and said, there's something I would ask about. May I, Zhezun said, if there's some matter, some affair, please ask, Zhezun said, are the mountains, rivers, and earth identical or separate from you elders? So this is a key question related to what do you call the world?

[03:18]

The mountains, rivers, and earth, are they separate from you? And Zhishan said, separate. And Zhishan held up two fingers. Zhishan hurriedly said, identical, identical. Zhishan again held up two fingers and then left. So that second holding up of two fingers is important in this story. Fayan said, what was the meaning of the abbot holding up two fingers? Zhishan said, he did that arbitrarily. Fayan said, don't crudely insult him. Shishan said, are there any elephant tusks in a rat's mouth? That's, you know, very insulting. Anyway, they were already leaving. Fayan said, go ahead. I'll stay with Dizang. He may have some strong point. If not, I'll come find you. After Fayan had studied there for a long time, the others, including Shishan, came back and became dramaeurs of Dizang. So Wansong's commentary on the story, when Dezung asked, how's Buddhism in the South these days, they should have said, always the same as here.

[04:32]

But instead, Xuesheng said, there's lots of discussion going on. He doesn't even know how to come forth on his own. Dezung said, how can that compare to me here, planting the fields and eating rice? Just taking care of this everyday business here. At that moment, Shishan should have said, according to Wansong, if so, then there's not just the South. But instead, he said, how about the world? Dragging in the meditating travelers of the South, his mundane air was not gone. So we talked about this question, what do you do about the world, a lot yesterday, and discussion later, too. As the world is today, of course, this is a very serious, critical question of existential survival. What do we do about the world these days? Of course, it's always been somewhat perilous, but still. It would have been better just to say, this is Wansung again, I'm busy planting the fields instead of going into what do you call the world.

[05:41]

I don't agree with Wansung there. Of course, Wansung, this question, what do you call the world, is very provocative for us. What is it we think of as the world, the universe, the earth? So I want to get into some of the commentary on the verse. But first, I'm going to read a commentary on that basic story from Dogen. This is in Ehe Koroku, Dharmal Discourse number 425. This was from 1251. And this is a somewhat different translation. And I haven't had a chance to check if the original Chinese is different in Ehe Koroku from in the Book of Serenity. Maybe not. But anyway. as Shohok when I translated it. I can remember De Zong, Lohan, Kui Chen, asked Mountain Master She, that's She Shan, where are you from? Longzhi Xiaoshu said, from the south. De Zong said, in the south these days, how is the Buddha Dharma?

[06:45]

Xiaoshu said, there is extensive deliberation. And there seems to be extensive deliberation these days, too, about how is the Buddha Dharma. Not just in the south and the west and the east and I don't know, about the north. Maybe there too. Tzu Zang said, it is better for me to stay here and sow the fields, make rice balls and eat. Okay. Ceausescu asked, what will you do about the triple world? And Duzang said, what is it you call the triple world? So literally, the triple world is the world of past, present, and future. It means the entire world throughout space and time. So that's Dogen's reading of the basic story, or our translation of it. Teacher Dezong, and then Dogen has a commentary, Teacher Dezong and Mountain Master Xiaoxue, that's Xueshan, spoke like this, but old man Eihei, that's Dogen, also has something to say.

[07:52]

Seeing the triple world, but not in the manner of the triple world, how can entering or leaving disturb the non-existence of any dichotomy of inside and outside? Yes, I will. Seeing the triple world, but not in the manner of the triple world. So this is, you know, how do we, what do we call the world? Seeing the triple world, but not in the manner of the triple world, how can entering or leaving disturb the existence of inside and outside? So this story is also about duality and non-duality and the non-duality of duality and non-duality. Be that as it may, Dogen continues, there is extensive deliberation, unquote, but what worldly people love, how can I love?

[08:55]

Having reached here, ultimately, how is it? So that what worldly people love, how can I love, we chant from the Song of the Grass Hut by Shito, who is an ancestor of Deshan, as well as of Tongshan. What worldly people love, she doesn't love, is the pronoun that we use in our chant. But I'll repeat that last part. So seeing the triple world, but not in the manner of the triple world, How can entering or leaving disturb the non-existence of inside and outside? So Dogen is saying, whether we come or go, there's no inside and outside. No separation between ourselves and the earth, mountains, and rivers. Yeah. Then Dogen says, be that as it may, there is extensive deliberation.

[10:04]

But what worldly people love, how can I love? Having reached here, ultimately, how is it? So this issue of the world and worldly people and going against the grain of the world, as I spoke about yesterday, communing with the source rather than being involved in explanations or even expression. So there's, you know, Joel Marisomatti, it says, communing with the source and communing with the process includes integration and includes the road. How do we see that there's no inside and outside? Climate and maybe even climate chaos is climate breakdown is happening on each of our seats right now. It's not somewhere outside, and it's not somewhere inside, or it's not separate.

[11:10]

So Tolkien says, be that as it may, there's extensive deliberation, but what worldly people love, how can I love? You're here because you have not turned inside as opposed to outside, but you are in the middle of this non-separation. So the Dharamhal discourse goes on. After a pause, Dogen said, in the spring, teacher Dzong must work the farm quickly in order to stay here and sow the fields, make rice balls, and eat. So we take care of the world, sitting for five days or for a day or whatever, period after period.

[12:16]

What do we call the world? What do we do about the world? No separation. Going back to the Book of Serenity case, there's this verse by Hongzhe, who picked the cases and wrote the cases for the Book of Serenity, but also has these verse comments. Source and explanation variously are all made up. So he's saying even the source is made up. Passing to ear from mouth, it comes apart. So whatever expression I might make in its passing to your ear from my mouth, it comes apart. So this story in the verse seems to take the side of putting down discussion or even expression, maybe.

[13:33]

Nothing to do but plant fields, making rice, ordinary household matters. Only those who have investigated to the full would know. Having investigated to the full, you clearly know there's nothing to seek. The Heart Sutra says, no attainment and nothing to attain. This is the part of the Heart Sutra that is an expression of avalokitesvara, the bodhisattva of compassion, who hears the cries of the world. So going to Wansong's commentary on the verse, and I read some of this yesterday, but I want to go further. He quotes somebody who said, communion with the source is one's own practice. Communion by speech is showing it to those who are not yet enlightened.

[14:39]

And we might ask, who are those who are not yet enlightened? Who are those who are already enlightened? Anyway, that aside. you know, this rhythm between communion with the source, communion with that deep wellspring of creativity, communion with the ultimate. So I'm quoting a Minnesotan there. Communion by speech is showing it to those who are not yet enlightened. And I think the The speech, maybe the speech here is different from the word in the case or earlier in the commentary, but this has to do with realization and expression. And then he quotes something from the Lankavatara Sutra.

[15:46]

There are two kinds of communion. Communion with the source means by way of the character of transcending progress. There's nothing, you know, this comment by Hongzhe, there's nothing to seek. Having investigated to the full, you clearly know there's nothing to seek. Here we are, right here. This is the world. Communion with the source means by way of the character of transcending progress. It's a big one, because we're trained in our culture and maybe humans in general. I don't know where the idea of progress came. Maybe it didn't exist in pre-modern times, pre-industrial times. But anyway, transcending progress, one attains to utterly detach from false conceptions, from speech and symbols. By the time my words get to your ears, they're already gone.

[16:50]

And then we can go to the realm of non-indulgence, which is interesting. What is the realm of non-indulgence? Well, we don't indulge in idle chatter. We don't indulge in being serious. And we don't indulge in being frivolous. And I don't know, the realm of non-indulgence, just this, Then the process of self-awakening, light shines forth. This is called the character of communion with the source. Then there's communion by speech. That means teaching the various inductive doctrines of the nine branches. that are hot branches of teaching to realize self-awakening, to fully purify self.

[17:51]

Avoiding ages of difference or non-difference, existence or non-existence. I'm sorry, avoiding signs of difference or non-difference, existence or non-existence, and the like. Using skillful means to explain the truth as it is needed, This is the character of communion by speech. So that's the realm of skillful means. How do we express and embody mind, this deep source? And then there's this business, communion by speech without communion with the source is like the sun being hidden by clouds. Communion with the source without communion by speech is like a snake in a bamboo tube, which we talked about a lot yesterday as a metaphor for a certain kind of practice. But this is also like Hongzhe's

[18:54]

Guideposts for Silent Illumination. If illumination neglects serenity, then aggressiveness appears. If serenity neglects illumination, murkiness leads to wasted dharma. So that's a different polarity, illumination and serenity. But it's somewhat analogous, serenity being dipping deep into the source, illumination being its expression, not necessarily in speech. Anyway, if we distinguish the source and speech, these already are two pathways. How can Chan be divided into five branches? And remember, Fayen was one of the founders of one of the five houses.

[19:58]

and the teachings arranged in three vehicles. Here, not even one can stand up. All are artificial. How much more going out the mouth and the ear, asking for instruction, reciting and eulogizing? The vines of entanglement and complications have extended into the next country already. So this Zen business is a little bit funny, you know? What are we doing here? It is not just in the South or the West that there's a lot of debate going on. If you are someone who can speak of fire without burning your mouth, your eloquence is like a torrent. But basically, there's not so much as a letter, even though planting the fields and making rice is ordinary.

[21:01]

Unless you investigate to the full, you don't know their import. So everyday activity or even working to help or protect the world is meaningless without this deep grounding, is what Wansung is saying. And yet, I would add, when one has this grounding, one expresses it naturally. So in the bottom of that page, the ancients would reap and boil chestnuts and rice at the edge of a hoe in a broken-legged pot deep in the mountains.

[22:20]

Their fortune was no more than contentment all their lives. They never sought from anyone their nobility. So this is talking about the ancient Chinese great sages who disdained any any position and just went off into the mountains and lived on berries or whatever. They never sought from anyone. Their nobility was no more than purity and And serenity, OK. What need for bushels of emblems? Who needs any stinking badges? Having investigated to the full, you clearly know there's nothing to seek. And then it has this example that Hongshu refers to of someone who disdains any fancy rewards.

[23:21]

So this thing about Dazang holding up two fingers, and then again holding up two fingers. So where are the mountains, rivers, and earth? Are they identical or separate from you? If you say they're separate, okay. If you say they're identical, okay. But both are incomplete. So non-duality is not the opposite of duality. To fully integrate Or I don't know that anyone ever fully integrates, even though it's being encouraged here.

[24:37]

But how do we see no inside, outside, or in between? If we take either side, the source or the world, we're off balance. If we say both, we're off balance. If we say neither, that's even worse. So this koan goes very deep. There's a couple of other cases that it brings to mind for me. One that I'll just mention briefly, which I've talked about a lot, but Yun Yan, Dongshan's teacher was sweeping the temple grounds. It was work period, temple cleaning, and he was sweeping.

[25:40]

And his Dharma brother and brother Dao said, too busy. And Yanyan said, you should know there's one who's not busy. This deep communion with the source allows us to see the one who's not busy, even maybe as we're busy taking care of the world. You should know there's one who's not busy. And then Dao said the same thing, or, you know, the same issue as to Song. You mean there are two worlds, or two moons? And Yun Yun held up his broom and said, which moon is this? It seems almost impossible not to get caught. when we think about what can we do about the world, and when we look deeper at what we call the world. And yet there's this reminder from our ancestors about this going beyond one or two.

[26:51]

And I may go more into this, but Book of Serenity, Case 15, I'll refer to just briefly. And this is Guishan and Yongshan, one of the other five houses. Guishan was the teacher of Yongshan, and there are all these wonderful stories about them. Guishan asked Yongshan, where are you coming from? Yongshan said, from the fields. So he also had been. planting seeds, planting the fields. And Guishan said, how many people are there in the fields? And Yangshan just planted his hoe in the ground, clasped his hands, and stood there, kind of blocking the way. Guishan said, oh, on South Mountain, there are a lot of people cutting thatch. Yangshan took up his hoe and went. So presumably to join them. So I may get further into this case during this week or not, but I wanted to look at some of the comments on Hongshu's verse by Wansong.

[28:09]

Wansong's, Hongshu's verse, the old enlightened one's feelings are many, he thinks of his descendants. Now he repents of setting up a household. I can relate to that. What have I done? What have I done? Ancient dragon sand gate, what is this? Wasted 10 years, anyway. He must remember the saying about South Mountain, engraved on the bones and scribed on the skin, together requiting the blessing. So I'm going to just read a little bit of Wansong's comment to Hongshuo's verse. This verse is like the biography of Mao Ying on the book of the Han dynasty, where he says, real and conventional come up together. So that's lovely. There's no separation. No one, no two, no.

[29:11]

It's like drumming and singing begin together in the Dhrulamara Samadhi, which could also be translated as hitting and yelling come up together. If I whack Bo, he's going to scream, right? Immediately. Maybe not. Maybe he's just, he can just, full of forbearance and patience and just take, what? Wait till later. Wait till later, yeah. But no, usually in the conventional world, real and conventional come up together. When you take a look, Guishan is the old enlightened one, Yangshan and his successors are his descendants. If you go into it, then it's not so. Teacher and student, it's a funny thing. Anyway, a monk asked this guy who's got this colorful name, Tiger Sen of Changsha, who had this nickname, Tiger. Does the original person attain Buddhahood?

[30:13]

Sen said, you tell me. Does the emperor of China cut thatch? Lest we know that cutting thatch is the business of the minister. The emperor doesn't bother with that. But now he repents of setting up a household, Wansong referring to the line from Hongzhe's verse. A thousand-year shadowless tree, the bottomless shoe of the present, abiding master of the moon over the thousand peaks, robe and bowl of valley and clouds. So these images of deep communion with the source, Totally unconditioned, a thousand-year-old shadowless tree. That's kind of like the story of Dzong planting the fields. A thousand-year-old shadowless tree.

[31:15]

Do you see any shadows there? The bottomless shoe of the present. So can you step into the bottomless shoe of the present? So this non-duality of duality and non-duality is very deep. This not being caught at all in any of this. Not caught by inside, outside, or in between. Going beyond oneness or twoness. So the Buddha is sitting in the middle of this room on his altar, totally gone beyond, inside, outside, in between, or vice versa.

[32:18]

Some of you may have noticed in the Doksan room, there's not a Buddha on the altar. I have a thousand-armed canon. The Bodhisattva is still reaching out her hand. Practicing skillful means. Deluded, totally deluded, totally caught in the world. So, I hope none of that was helpful. But does anyone have any comments or responses or questions or utterances? Please feel free. Or can anybody, oh, well, Jenny, go ahead.

[33:35]

What worldly people love, well, it's I don't love, he says. Well, the translation that we did of what worldly people love, how can I love? Yeah, it's just a different translation. It could be. is so much more positive than negative. Because that, in fact, is the number one human job in the world. That's true, but.

[35:04]

Yes, good, good, good, good. So that's, that's crucial, but. And that's what we're living. So it's not like, okay, how can I somehow rise above this? Or, you know, understand that in the end everything is all the same. It's how do I love this? And it's not just, But it's powerful. Good, good, good. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you, thank you. Yes. So, yeah. So, a lot of people think Zen is about, you know, as you said, being caught in or being stuck, going down into the source and just staying there. Wallowing in emptiness. But yeah, the mountains, rivers, and earth are not separate.

[36:15]

There are worldly trivialities that I enjoy. I like going to the movies. I like watching some sports sometimes. I confess, I'm not a very good Zen teacher. You know, I like things in the world. I like listening to music, which they don't do. You know, Niazan's going to Tassajara where you're not allowed to listen to music for three months. So, you have to remember the music you heard somewhere else or something. You know, if you sneak in earphones. This is a real problem, you know? We can't just go along with the world. You're here. You're sitting sashin. You all have some relationship or intimacy with the source.

[37:23]

And yet, how can I love what worldly people love? Yes, Nyo-san? Yeah, I'll read the whole commentary by Dogen. Dezong and Xiaoshan spoke like, and Xueshan spoke like this, but old man Eihei, that's him speaking, also has something to say. Seeing the triple world, but not in the manner of the triple world. That's really good. How can entering or leaving disturb the non-existence of inside and outside? So that's the same as what worldly people love, how can I love? He says, be that as it may, there is extensive deliberation, but what worldly people love, how can I love? Having reached here, ultimately, how is it?

[38:25]

the sort of theme of non-duality, of duality, of non-duality. It's sort of like, it's very much the harmony of difference and sameness. There's always, we all tend to go off on one or the other. We sure do. It's really interesting, because Dogan seems to enact that, because he makes this sort of strong statement about getting past that, and then immediately, sort of reintroduces difference between, you know, how can I love what worldly people love? It's like, you know, he's demonstrating, the cognizant, he's demonstrating what happens between mouth and ear. Yes. Yes, yes, just this.

[39:51]

We're stuck in this actually very dynamic, problematic, what do we do? And so the bodhisattva of compassion has 1,000 arms making mistakes, not being Buddha, just here we are in the world. We're in the process of investigating it fully, at least. Suzanne, it looks like you have something to say. Yes.

[41:12]

Yes, yeah, wonderful images. Yes. Yeah, that dog howling in the Thistle of Reeds. I saw some of that yesterday. And we all go there sometimes. So we'll have more discussion this afternoon, but does anybody else want to add anything?

[42:12]

Oh, Aishan, I didn't see you. I'm debating whether I want to add it or not. Subtract it then. I'm really caught by the character of transcending progress and that image and the concept of the triple world and how I think in our ordinary life we think that we are in some kind of progress, or we're trying to have progress. We're trying to have progress so that babies don't die, and we can heal the sick people, and extend life for individuals. And that's our human dilemma, is that we care about individuals, but we also care about the species. And we're getting to a point where maybe we have too many people. but we don't want to lose the individuals. And so we're trying to solve problems right now without reflecting on how some of the things that are doing us in right now are just ordinary things that we've been doing for millennia, like throwing things away.

[43:27]

Our whole system is set up in such a way that we aren't sustainable. So making these small little sustainable changes in the name of progress just makes more difficulty for us. There's no way in which things can be thrown. Right, right. Well, among other things, right. There's no way anywhere ever. But it used to be that the things that were thrown away but more readily. And now, in the name of progress, we have things that won't go away. Plastics. But I don't know. We can draw our own conclusions about what to do with that, or why, or where it came from. But it's the triple world. And we can't ignore cause and effect, as the fox taught us.

[44:38]

Or maybe we care about collectives as well, but still. Yeah, this question of progress. It's so fundamental to, we want things to be better, we want our life to be better, and not attaching to progress, not seeking anything else. Can we just be in this situation? which includes our response to difficulties and the problems created by progress and so forth. Okay, here we are, stuck in this.

[45:32]

@Transcribed_v004
@Text_v005
@Score_90.95