Was anybody not here last week? Raise your hand. Some people were not here. Okay. So, last week I introduced the teaching or the concept. And in general, when I introduce something, I usually, you know, put it out there, like, here's something I'm offering to you. It's kind of an assertion. But it's also can be considered a thought experiment, something to meditate on, something to question. I don't mean what I say to be taken unquestioningly. So, I offered these three forms of compassion last week. And to briefly reiterate them, first type is called compassion,

[01:09]

which has beings as an object or as objects. And in particular, it has beings who are considered or believed to be substantially existing beings. So, beings are the object. They're seen as out there separate from the subject. They're seen as substantial. And their suffering is also an object of compassion. And the suffering is also seen as substantial, as self-existent. And the compassion also, and the compassionate being may also be considered as substantially existing. This is the kind of compassion which we're more familiar with.

[02:14]

The second type of compassion is called compassion according to or according with the Dharma. And this compassion sees the objects of the first type of compassion, but sees them as insubstantial, as non-substantial. And sees their suffering and their delusions as non-substantial. And sees the compassion as non-substantial. And the third type of compassion, called great compassion or Buddha's compassion, does not have objects. The first type of compassion has, you might say, shortcomings

[03:23]

or drawbacks. The shortcoming is that when we see beings as substantially existing and we're devoted to them, we are at risk of abandoning them. Because when we see them as substantially existing and when we see our attempts to help them as substantially existing, it creates outflows in our life energy. It enervates us, it tires us. So that after a while we feel like we're either being deflated or our energy is being drawn, being drained out of us in the relationship.

[04:24]

And we may even think that the other person is sucking our energy out of us. They're not really sucking it, but the way we see them sucks it. Or another possibility is when we see them as substantially existing, we may feel like energy is flowing into us and we become inflated and get bigger and bigger, eventually exploding in a catastrophe. So both inflation and deflation are potential drawbacks of the first type of compassion. And also that type of compassion is in danger of being attached to the objects and being attached to the compassion and being attached to benefiting beings, which also has draining, enervating, discouraging consequences.

[05:29]

The second type of teaching incorporates the teaching that what we see before us, the things that appear in mind, are not as they actually are, but a thought construction of beings. We are devoted to help beings, but the Dharma is also saying to us that the way they appear in consciousness is an illusory version of them. And if we keep that teaching in mind, then we observe beings with a sense that we're observing an illusory version of them, a personal, in a sense, a personal view of them, a thought-constructed rendition of them, not the actual person or the actual suffering or the actual compassion. This type of compassion, we see beings who are devoted to them,

[06:37]

but we don't grasp them, we don't apprehend them, we just give ourselves to them without grabbing them. The second type of compassion frees us from the sentimental drawbacks of the first type of compassion. Once again, the first type of compassion is called famously in the Vimalakirti Sutra, sentimental compassion. And in the sutra it says that if you practice this kind of compassion towards beings, you will abandon them, either try to get rid of them or run away from them, not realizing that it's not the beings that are the problem, but your sentimental view of them. The second type of compassion frees us from the first type of compassion. Again, without getting rid of it. The second type of compassion does not get rid of beings.

[07:39]

However, it has a drawback and its drawback is that it tends to apprehend non-substantiality. And if we apprehend non-substantiality, that also undermines our intimate and wholehearted engagement with illusory beings. So, the third type of compassion, great compassion, we are so intimately involved with beings that we are not grasping the illusory quality of them and we are not grasping the non-substantial aspect of them. We are just one and the same as all beings. Great compassion is just complete intimacy with all beings. And this is what, this intimacy is what liberates all beings. So, that's a summary of that discussion from last week.

[08:45]

These three are not mentioned in the text which we have been considering, but I think we will find them there. So, tonight I would like to introduce or look at some of the other verses. I'd like to look at verse 31, which could be translated, this talks about five types or five kinds of result of compassion or five fruits of compassion. So, the text says, Enlightenment is not far away at all from the victor's spiritual heirs and heiresses who rely upon the dharma, I would say, I would add, the dharma of compassion,

[09:50]

which prevents violence, that's the first fruit, prevents violence, which is a seed of superior awakening or enlightenment, that's the second fruit. Third, brings happiness and delivers, this is what it actually says, but in parentheses, which brings happiness to oneself and delivers other beings. And four, the compassion which causes the desirable. And five, naturally imparts itself. Okay, these are five, [...] five results.

[10:52]

Now, I'm going to try something now and you can tell me how it goes for you. These five results are, I would say, they don't all come at once necessarily when practicing compassion. They could come separately at different times. And they do, however, what did I say? They do kind of summarize the different types of fruit of our action. So in the early Buddhist teaching in India, they spoke of five types of fruits or five types of results of our action, of our compassionate action, but also other types of action have these five fruits.

[11:56]

So the first type, again, I'm going to try this. The first type is called, we can translate it into English, as bondage severance fruit. Or in Sanskrit, visam yoga phala. Bondage severance fruit. And that means that by practicing compassion, our bondage, excuse the expression, our human bondage to violence is severed. That's the first type of fruit that comes from practicing compassion. The second type, the seed of superior awakening

[13:01]

is called the dominant fruit. In some sense, the most important fruit or the most influential fruit for our life is that the practice of compassion is a seed for superior enlightenment. In Sanskrit called atipati phala or atipati phala actually. The third brings happiness to oneself and delivers others. And that is called the heroic consequence, the heroic fruit of compassion is that it brings happiness to self and delivers others. The fourth is that practicing compassion is the cause of the desirable life

[14:05]

of the bodhisattva. It's the cause of the life which the bodhisattva aspires to. The life of saving all beings and attaining Buddhahood for the welfare of beings. Compassion is the cause of that life. And this is called the maturation fruit. This is the fruit coming to maturity in the form of the life which the bodhisattva wishes to live. This is not the seed, this is the fruit. This is the fruit fruit. And the last one gives of its own nature or gives of itself or imparts itself.

[15:06]

So in this way, it's kind of like something you might be familiar with. Compassion, one of the consequences of compassion is more compassion, is the consequence of compassion. So by practicing compassion, one of the results is to be able to practice compassion. It's not like compassion controls the way compassion is going to be practiced. It just flows into more compassion. But the compassion that flows, the Sanskrit is Nishyanda Pala, which means even flowing, which means the compassion flows kind of evenly into another rendition or manifestation of itself. But it's not like exactly the same. So these are the five results of compassion as taught in this text by Asanga. Ready for another verse?

[16:11]

Rev, a point of clarification. Are we talking about all three of the compassions or just one in particular that produces these results? I would say that all three might produce these results, but great compassion definitely produces all five. And the first type might produce. But thank you for that question. I would say, actually, I take it back. I would say all three have these results. It's just that the first type, in order to have this result, we have to get over the first type and the second type in order to have this result. But they are part of the causal process. All three are part of the process. And as also I mentioned last week, in the Vimalakirti Sutra,

[17:13]

it refers to the first type as sentimental great compassion or loving view great compassion. So they're all embraced by great compassion. But in order to realize these results, we have to become free of the first two types, but we can't become free of the first two types unless we've practiced them for a while. So thank you for that question, Tracy. The next two. Yeah, I think the next two, maybe we can handle quickly. This next one is the compassionate genius. Is that what you have? Understands, which is the Bodhisattva, understands that everything included in the life cycle of samsara is naturally both

[18:15]

suffering and selfless. Everything in samsara is suffering and selfless. And the Bodhisattva understands that. And because they understand that, they are neither disgusted about the suffering, nor are they damaged by its faults. Because they understand that suffering is selfless, they're not disgusted by it. Because they understand, no, excuse me, because of their compassion, they are not disgusted by suffering. And because they understand that all things in samsara are suffering, no, are selfless,

[19:20]

they are not harmed by them. Once again, because the Bodhisattva sees all things in samsara as suffering, as marked by suffering, they do not get disgusted. Because they see them as selfless, they are not harmed by them. So, because they do not see them as disgusting, they do not push them away. Or they also do not abide in nirvana. Bodhisattvas can attain peace. They can attain nirvana. But they do not abide in it because of their compassion for samsara. Also, Bodhisattvas do not abide in samsara because they understand that everything in it is selfless. So they neither abide in samsara,

[20:23]

which is selfless, nor do they abide in nirvana. Abiding in nirvana would be the result of being disgusted by the world of suffering. Abiding in samsara would be the result of seeing suffering as having a self. If we see suffering as substantial, we abide in samsara. If we see suffering as having a self, we abide in nirvana. If we see suffering as selfless and do not have compassion, we abide in nirvana. The bodhisattva does not... The bodhisattva can live in nirvana and samsara. They can live in either one

[21:23]

and they abide in neither. And the next one is about really understanding samsara. When she observes the natural suffering of the world, the loving bodhisattva suffers. Yet she knows just what it is, as well as the means to avoid it. And so she does not become exhausted. So, she observes the world of suffering beings and because of her compassion, she suffers. But she suffers because of compassion, not because of seeing beings as substantial. She sees beings

[22:25]

which see the world and its suffering as substantial suffering. She only suffers because she cares for these beings. Otherwise, there would be no suffering for her. Then in addition, she knows how to avoid the suffering, which is to understand selflessness. So, she can live in the world and suffer in the world because of her love and compassion. And she's not exhausted because she understands the world is selfless. If we live in the world because of our compassion but don't understand that the world is selfless, we get exhausted. Okay, that was a lot and I think maybe I shouldn't...

[23:30]

Yeah. Do you think that's enough verses or should I do some more? Should we switch to conversation now or should I do some more verses? Any comments? Maybe all those who want me to stop, raise your hand. Okay. And those who wish me to continue. So, quite a few people didn't vote, right? It looks like 50-50. I guess I could stop for a while. Is that okay for the people who want me to continue? Is it okay if we stop? Any comments? I'm open to the feedback. I'm open to stopping.

[24:31]

Stopping. Stopping is good. We can stop. Stopping is good. Any votes for not stopping? How about some not... Anybody not stopping vote? Okay. Okay, so we've gotten up to verse 34 and now maybe we can pause now and see if you have any questions or comments. So, I'm having trouble getting my head around the relationship between suffering and selflessness. One being that you suffer... Seeing suffering as selfless versus seeing it the opposite. So, can you elaborate on that a little more? It doesn't strike me as...

[25:35]

It doesn't immediately jump out and grab me. I mean, I think I understand the words, but it's not... I'm having a hard time getting it. So, one simple definition of suffering is to grasp things and grasping them depends on thinking they have something to grasp, that they have a self. So, believing that things have a self leads to us grasping them and when we grasp them, we suffer. So, the cure for that type of suffering, for suffering, is to see that the things which we used to grasp because we thought they had a self, to see them as selfless and not grasp them. This is relief of suffering. That's a good follow-up. So, let me translate that into compassion. But you have compassion for a person,

[26:37]

compassion for a group of people, compassion for a condition of things. But it seems to me when you have, you think of that, maybe it's just because I'm mired in sentimental compassion or something, you have it towards that entity as a person who exists and has substance. So, I'm just trying to put that together with what you just said. Yeah, good. So, in the first type of compassion, if we feel compassion for a person and we see them as substantially existing and graspable, then we suffer. And we suffer because we're grasping them. We still are practicing compassion towards them, but we haven't yet moved on to incorporate the teaching that things are suffering,

[27:37]

we see the suffering, but we have not yet seen the selflessness and therefore we are suffering. And then we maybe want to get away from these beings because our suffering, because we are grasping them as substantially existent. But is it, I'm sorry if I can follow up one more time. So, I was thinking earlier though, when you were telling me the danger or the drawbacks of sentimental compassion, for example, taking that first. Yes, I can see the tendency toward burnout or the tendency toward being, I don't know how you can put it this way, but wrapped up in your compassion and the idea of yourself as a compassionate person and what you get out of it and all that, that that's all a danger. But is that, it's one thing to say it's a danger, it's a possibility, or maybe even a good chance that it might happen. I'm saying it inevitably will happen if you don't move on to the second type of compassion.

[28:39]

Okay, I'll say it inevitably will happen. And wanting one moment of this type of compassion maybe isn't sufficient for burnout. But repeating it, because we don't really, when we're drained of our energy, even our compassion energy, we're not drained of it all at once. It's little by little, case by case. And I sometimes use the example of, it's been a while now, but sometimes during retreats, I would see a lot of people, like maybe there might, there sometimes might be 90 people in the retreat, and I might see them multiple times. If I was seeing two people a day or one person a day, I could see them with some sentimental compassion

[29:42]

and survive. But if I'm seeing many people a day and I do it that way, I would just collapse. So if you repeat this pattern enough, you will actually go into collapse, compassion collapse or compassion fatigue. But it won't happen all at once. It happens, you know, bite by bite or leak by leak. But eventually you would be depleted to such a point you couldn't go on anymore. But the first type of compassion is definitely part of the program. We can't skip over it. We have to start there. And the second type of compassion will free us from the problems of the first type. And just one last thing. Do we continue practicing the acts of compassion, even when we're in the second type

[30:43]

where we are recognizing that the objects of our compassion are not substantial? Yes. And in the third type too, it's just in the third type, you're not practicing compassion towards anything. You just are compassion. And everybody you're with, you and everybody you're with, that's the compassion. But the second type, you're still a little bit of holding on to the non-substantiality, which that can undermine your compassion not by draining you, but by undermining your wholeheartedness. That's helpful. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for the question. I see two people. Yuki and Jiren. Yeah, I see myself. Sonia. And Gayatri.

[31:45]

Okay. I see myself. Am I supposed to speak? I think you were first. Here you go. My question is very similar to his in a way. You talked about unbonding, and I think you related it in 31 to... It was particularly severing the bond to violence. To bond to violence. Which is also resistance to compassion. So it severs our resistance to compassion or compassion severs the bondage or the habitual violence. It severs resistance to compassion.

[32:50]

Compassion severs resistance to compassion. That's the first fruit. I guess my question is, what is the relationship between the growth of compassion and all beings? In other words, if I... And as a corollary, do I have to sever the bonds and see things as insubstantial to have a sense of non-self? If I haven't reached that stage, will I have? First you said, what's the relationship between beings and growth of compassion? Yeah, it sounds like I need other beings. Beings are what compassion eats. Compassion grows on beings. Beings are what compassion grows on. It's the soil that it grows in. That's one relationship. Beings are the nourishment for compassion.

[33:52]

Compassion is nourished by beings. And of course, compassion nourishes beings and teaches them to be nourished by beings. But it sounds like there's a mirror there because if I'm caught in sentimental compassion, it sounds like I'm sending compassion out. But the other ones have all beings in them. So there's a more one-heartedness. I'm actually learning greater compassion in ways I could not do on my own. You can send compassion out and you can send compassion in. You can send it out or in. In the first two types, you can send compassion out to beings who are other or into self. And all the things that make up the self, you can say you send compassion or you can welcome compassion to come into you. You can welcome compassion to come into you.

[34:55]

Like we chant, you know, the ten-phrase Sutra of Guanyin. K'n-ze-on-na-mu-bu-tsu-yo-bu-tsu. We do that chant to invite compassion to come into us and address us, address our suffering. But also we chant it to send it out. So we send it out and we invite it in. We direct it out, we direct it in. Go out! Come in! Both. And with no exceptions. Everything directed towards all beings outward and all beings inward. It sounds like it's something you can't really do. You have to allow it to happen. But I'm not sure. I think a big part of it is allow it to happen, but allow it to happen actively. Like I allow you to happen rather than just passively.

[35:56]

I welcome you. Please come. I welcome you to go help all beings. So you're not really doing it. You're just sort of welcoming it and allowing it. And remembering it. You're remembering, you're not doing it. You're receiving it, you're not doing it. You're practicing it, but you're not doing it. Right. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Good evening, Rev. Good evening, Gayathri. Before I ask my question, I wanted to ask you how your knee is doing. It's less painful than last week. Okay. That's getting better. That's good to hear. And your aunt is giving me lots of medicine for it.

[36:58]

Oh, good. Good, good, good. Yay. She has all these Ayurvedic potions. That's great. So my question, Rev. So it's really, it's more of a personal question. Because in the work that I do, I see several people during the day where I, you know, I'm meeting them one-on-one. You know, we're talking, they share their suffering. You know, I listen, I offer certain practices. So there are days when, you know, like I can see where, you know, I can feel the tiredness of the work. One thing I've learned, though, is that I don't hold on to the stories usually. Like by, you know, then the next day it's a fresh start. I don't carry the previous day with me. But can you offer a way in which to remember? So the insight of no self, you know, it's something that is there,

[38:00]

but it hasn't been established in a real way in my, so when I'm actually interacting with a person, it does feel like, okay, here's a person with real suffering. And, you know, I'm listening to them. But is there a way for me to remember the no self in, you know, the truth of that? So some kind of practical ways in which I can remember it and use it in the work that I do, so that the compassion is more of the second kind rather than the first kind. I think there's many ways. One way that just came to my mind is I'm talking to you now. And I remind myself, Gayatri is not what I think she is. This inconceivable being that I'm aware of is not how she appears in my consciousness.

[39:02]

She is appearing in my consciousness. But, of course, I know that the way she's appearing right now is not like she would look if she was in person. But I could, some people might actually fall for this image on a screen as being you. But I think it's good for me to remember I don't know who you are. I'm devoted to you. I'm devoted to somebody. And I remember I don't know who you are. And you're not what I think you are. But I do think you're, you know, something. My mind does put you together. But I remind myself she's not how my mind is creating her. She's not how my body creates her. And I'm still devoted to her. And actually, I feel lighter when I remember that. Even if, you know, if you appear to be wonderful, and I remember you're not the way you appear to be wonderful,

[40:04]

that protects me from drain, from being burnout. If I remember if I think you're a monster, I remember she's not what I think she is. I do think she's a monster. But she's not the monster I think she is. Who knows what she is? She might be an angel. She might be even a greater monster than I thought. But she's not what I think she is. Also, that lightens my relationship and supports the continuing compassion. That's just one example of remember, people are not what I think they are. There's Gayatri. She's not what I think she is. I don't know what she is. I'm devoted to the mystery of Gayatri. I could go on many other examples, but maybe that's enough for now, and you could ask me for another one later.

[41:06]

Okay. Yeah, so I guess in a practical sort of way, like if I'm about to, say, meet somebody, and so just before I start any interaction, you know, just kind of just saying exactly what you said. Okay, this person who I'm about to meet is not who I think that person is, and it's not the way they appear to me. And their suffering is not the way I may be understanding it. So I kind of just remind myself of that. And then is there a way after the fact to also kind of to release it, you know, to release that interaction and to start fresh again? Do you know what I'm... It's the before and the after, too. Again, there's many ways, but one way is just let go of it. Exactly, yeah. Let go of it. And as my grandson sometimes says, let's not dwell in the past or the future.

[42:08]

And again, if you're seeing multiple people, again, if I think of the next person, that drains me for this person. And if I think of the last person, that drains me for this person. So I would try and not think of who I just saw or who I'm going to see next, but just work with this person. That also kind of like... In an excused expression, it kind of plugs up the holes. Mm-hmm. Okay. Good evening. Good evening. It's almost the same question as Gayatri's. I was wondering if the transition from sentimental compassion to compassion related to insubstantiality,

[43:13]

whether that can be accomplished by an act of will or an act of intellect or... Yeah, how... And how much are we kind of in charge of that, that shift in our way of thinking? Approximately zero in charge. Uh-huh. So, I like the structure of your question, and I would say that... We're talking about the transition from sentimental compassion to the next type, which is, you could say, including the Dharma. So I notice, I'm aware that I have sometimes slipped into or I'm at risk of having sentimental compassion. So I bring in this teaching of, okay, I'm with this person and try to remember that what I'm seeing is an illusion of the person.

[44:14]

That helps me make the transition from sentimental to the next type. I didn't get rid of the image of the person that's constructed by my mind. Right. I just let go of the idea that the image is the person, that the imaginary person before me is the person. I let go of that with the teaching that this is an image of the person. So there's the transition. And then you said, is there will involved there? Well, the thought, the thought to remember the teaching of dependent co-arising, that this thing is a thought construction, the wish to remember that is a kind of will. I wish to remember the teaching. When I'm talking to people, I wish to remember the teaching. So in a sense, the wish in that moment is kind of like my vow,

[45:16]

but it's also kind of like the tendency of that state of mind. However, that does not, that wish is not in control. I'm not in control of the wish and the wish is not in control of me. However, that wish might, especially if it's a compassionate wish, might lead to remembering that what I'm seeing here is an illusion of the person. But I can't control myself to remember the teaching. I can't control the teaching to remember me. And I can't, and I can't control that once the teaching has been remembered, I cannot and the teaching cannot control the next moment when that teaching might be applied. However, it does influence the process. It has consequences. And one of the consequences is

[46:16]

this even flowing one. If you think of this teaching, one of the consequences is the even flowing consequence, the consequence of, what did we say, of imparting itself. So the wish to remember imparts itself to the wish to remember, to remembering. But there's nobody in control in this process. But everything we do has consequences. And the teaching is helping us understand the consequences and participate in this process of evolution. But we're not in control of it. The Buddha is not in control of this. The Buddha is just beaming the teaching The Buddha can't control us to listen to it and remember it and practice it. The Buddha does sometimes say, please listen, please remember. But that doesn't control us. But it has consequence. And we can say to ourself,

[47:19]

please remember. That has consequence. And part of the consequence is another moment of saying, please remember. But it's not control. But it sets up kind of a feedback loop of some sort. Yeah. There's a feedback loop, but the feedback loop is not in control of the feedback process. And partly because nobody's in control, everybody can be free. If somebody was in control, if the Buddha was in control, we'd all be Buddhas. If the devils were in control, we'd all be devils. But neither Buddha nor devils are in control. We're in this process. And what you just said is also true of the transition from the second kind of compassion to the third. Yeah. Yeah. So some of us in this assembly

[48:21]

have sometimes been involved in sentimental compassion. Not to mention other things, but we have sometimes been really trying to practice compassion, but we've done it in a sentimental way. And so we're opening... I feel this group is quite open to the feedback that there's some drawbacks in the way we've been practicing compassion. And so it seems like people are taking this teaching in and maybe there's some evolution here. Some groups, under some circumstances, people would be outraged if you would bring up the possibility that they're sentimentally compassionate. Because they actually think, my compassion is real. This is real compassion. Okay. Thank you. I can go next.

[49:28]

Yes. So I'm thinking about... That might be useful to try and really flesh out how recognizing the insubstantiality of self, other, and suffering helps to avoid the exhaustion or the abandonment. Uh-huh. I would... A red flag goes up when you say recognize selflessness. Is that what you said? Uh-huh, uh-huh. The insubstantial nature. That is not... The recognition of it is not the same as understanding it. Okay, go ahead. You're hearing the teaching of the insubstantial quality of these images. If you meditate on that teaching, you will realize it. If you see... If you actually see the selflessness, that's not selflessness. Selflessness is not something you can recognize.

[50:32]

You can recognize the word selflessness. You can recognize the teaching of it. But it's not something to recognize. It's something to understand. Something to realize. Realize, understand, become. Right. Why don't you like recognize? What's wrong with recognize? Because it makes it an object that actually exists. Okay, I see what you're saying. There's the actual selflessness out there. Okay. It's not an object. It's the fact that all objects are insubstantiality. But that's not just... And you can recognize all those insubstantial... You can recognize those substantial objects, but you can't recognize the insubstantiality of those substantial objects. It's just a... Yeah, it's like a semantic impossibility. Yeah, I see what you're saying. You can see things that appear to be substantial,

[51:34]

and you can understand that they're not. Just like I can see the way you look, and you do look this way, and you do not look like the plant behind you or the pictures on the wall. You do not. You look like this. And I can also remember that you're not the way you look. Right. And by remembering that, I can actually start to understand it. And so you can look like a really this way or really that way, and I don't get drained by it. So that's one way. Exhausted by it. So that's one way that realizing or understanding the insubstantiality of self, other, and suffering frees you from the exhaustion and the tendency to abandon. So I was thinking I wanted to really flesh it out even more. So I was thinking, okay,

[52:36]

why does this work? Why is this important? What's it look like? So I was thinking, well, if I didn't, if I was stuck in sentimental compassion, I might have a feeling of overwhelm if I see this suffering being, and I think, oh, my God, this poor person, I have to help them, or I have to do something, or I have to fix it. Then that would be a substantial view of it, which could leave me exhausted. Not quite. No? The things you said really are just more beings. For example, I have to help this person. That's another being. Right. That's another being in you. Right. That's the first way. That's the sentimental compassion. No, that's a being. Oh, the thing that says I need to help that person is a being.

[53:41]

Yeah, I have to help that person. That thought is a being. Okay. But thinking that thought is substantial, that's the sentimental compassion. Yes, I do want to help these beings. Yes, I do. But that's another being. And if I think I want to help those beings, it's substantial, then I have sentimental compassion towards my own good wish to help beings. So you can wish to help beings. And remember, my wish to help beings is not the way it appears to me. It's another insubstantial thing. Then it's not sentimental compassion for yourself who has that thought. The helper is not a substantial helper. Her good wishes are not substantial good wishes. And the beings she wishes to help are not substantial. But you can look at a being and still be seeing them as substantial and wish to help them, but catch yourself and not believe that your wish to help them is substantial.

[54:46]

And the wish to help them is not substantial because it arises in dependence upon the situation, both beings in the situation. That's part of the logic of why it's insubstantial. Yeah. It wasn't there before this person showed up and this feeling of wanting to help them came up because of them. It wasn't there all the time. It's not going to last. Everything's changing. And that will help you realize. So the basic teaching is all this is insubstantial. And then you just talked about some of the reasons why everything's insubstantial. Are there any other ways that you want to put forward that helps us to see the insubstantiality? Yes, the rest of this class and beyond will be the ways that I do. I had another idea. If you see the suffering of the other person without seeing the causes and conditions

[55:50]

and the dependent nature of that suffering, then you might feel more overwhelmed and drained as well when you see their actual causes of their suffering. You can't see all the causes. No, not all of them, but know that they are infinite. Know that they're infinite. That will also free you from grasping them and grasping their suffering. And that will open you to understanding the causation eventually. And the last thing before I lose it, that seeing... Oh, I lost it. Oh well, it's okay. There was something you said earlier. No, it's gone now. I had it for a second. I did too. Thank you.

[56:50]

You're welcome. Thank you. What would be benefit from making this more concrete? I... I speak to... people I care deeply about who are suffering in their attempt to help others.

[57:51]

They are social workers and doctors and parents. They are dealing with heinous crimes that are committed against children that they witness secondhand. And I... I want to... support them and not be overwhelmed by their overwhelm. And, yeah. Red flag. Red flag. Point to it. Want to not be overwhelmed. Okay, I am overwhelmed. Yeah, so before that you were talking about witnessing them. Yes. Then you added in, you wanted to not be overwhelmed. Yeah, I don't want to reflect their overwhelm.

[58:57]

That's something which should be witnessed also. Don't get into that. Don't get into that wanting to not be overwhelmed. Just witness that like you're witnessing these people. Witness that with compassion. Don't apprehend as a real thing the wish not to be overwhelmed. That just creates more overwhelm. Can you help me more with that? You're witnessing some suffering being. They want you to. Okay? They do not want you to try to not be overwhelmed. That's not what they want from you. They just want you to witness them. And then there's a being in you that comes up which is, I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. Then another being comes up, I don't want to be overwhelmed.

[59:59]

Those two are equally deserving of compassionate witnessing as the people you were originally looking at. So, don't try to like implement not being overwhelmed. Just like when you're listening to people, don't stick your head in their suffering. Witness it. Don't stick your head in, I'm feeling overwhelmed. Witness it. Don't stick your head in, I don't want to be overwhelmed. Witness it. Don't push the beings away. Don't push the overwhelm away. Don't push the beginning of overwhelm or the middle of overwhelm. Don't push the, I don't want to be overwhelmed. Witness all those things. What does that sound like in conversation when someone is expressing to you that this week they met with a child

[61:06]

who was raped by their father and is an immigrant and she has to decide whether to report the father and then risk the child being deported? What would that look like if I were to be witness to that? I can't say exactly what it would be, but the first thing that came to my mind was to help that person who's talking to you. Yeah. They're the first responder, right? Yeah. So, try to help them with how they're feeling. Ask them how they're feeling. How are they feeling? You can right now help them with that. And then you can help them look at are they actually witnessing how they're feeling? Like what you do with us. Yes. And you could do that. Then if you can witness them and help them witness themselves, that will help them when they go back to the situation. They can help those other people get in touch with how they feel.

[62:08]

So, that's being present. Present. Present. And then, okay, so now you find out how you feel when you're witnessing. And you work with, is my mind substantiating this person I'm listening to? If so, maybe I have to be careful here because I might abandon this person who's telling me about this situation. I have to remember they are not what I think they are. But I do think they are this way. So, then help them look at how they feel and then help them also not believe and take up substantial the way they feel. And then, in this way, it gets transmitted from you to them to the people they're helping. In this way, the compassion, which might start with, first of all, noticing a suffering being and being sentimental, but then noticing it and teaching that sentimental compassion to let go of its view,

[63:14]

its loving view, not get stuck in that loving view. By questioning it. And let the great compassion come. By being part of it. By witnessing the suffering, by being aware that we have this sentimental view of it and that really also there's a more thorough understanding of what's going on than our view. And work on that in yourself and tell the other person how to work on it in herself or his self. And then that will help them then go and address this terrible situation. Which then can get the same teaching round and round. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. By the way, I just wanted to mention that

[64:16]

Pam, when I was talking to Pam, she said she wanted to flesh this out some more. And I thought, yeah, you want to flesh this out completely. You want this teaching to be totally your body. So we do want to flesh it out. We want it to become our whole body. So let's do that, shall we? Next. Leslie. I'm curious about in number 31 where it says right after, is the seed of superior enlightenment, brings happiness to oneself. And I'm a little, I don't know if I'm misreading that or quite what that means there. And I'm wondering if you could explain. One of the things that I really love about this text

[65:22]

is this teaching, which this is the first kind of like, almost like warning of this teaching that's coming, which is the greatest joy is suffering, which comes because you love. That happiness is much greater than any other happiness. So it's not that you're happy that people are suffering. It's that you're suffering because they're suffering and you love them. That's your happiness. You're happy that you can be in this world of suffering with these beings because you love them. That's why you're here. And you're suffering because you love them. And that's happiness. Thank you. So practicing happiness in the world of suffering brings happiness to the

[66:24]

practicing compassion for beings in this world is happiness. And the happiness it delivers others. Yes, one more. Okay. If one is not practicing compassion towards themselves, is it is it impossible to practice compassion with others? You can not practice compassion towards yourself and practice what I call sentimental compassion towards others. So only if you're practicing compassion to all beings of which you are in that under that umbrella that otherwise it's sentimental compassion. Yeah. And so and people do some people do have compassion for others. And not themselves. And that's because

[67:25]

they have a substantial idea of self and other. So they leave themselves out. Of course, some other people do it the other way around. But it's quite common for people to have compassion towards others and not towards themselves. And they do that because of having an idea of the self of the other. If you don't have an idea of self, you wouldn't have it for one and not the other. So I think that's one of the this is drawing attention to one of the drawbacks of sentimental compassion. Is that you would have it for others, but not yourself. And therefore, if you don't have for yourself, it it hobbles or disenfranchises your compassion towards others. That makes sense. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. King.

[68:35]

I was reminded in regard to the pitfalls of the first kind of first kind of compassion. I was reminded of like when people take courses as emergency medical personnel whether they're firemen or ambulance drivers, first responders, that there's there's a first principle that you're taught right away. And that is don't become part of the problem. And that's what that kind of reminded me of. It's like that's if you're if you become part of the problem with your with your desire to help, then you're not being helpful. And then you yourself probably need some help. That's all. And I just add that if you don't take care of yourself, you'll become part of the problem. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you.

[69:47]

Hello. Hello. Hi. At the beginning of the class and throughout the class. You said that we would be that we would meditate on on these on compassion meditations on compassion. And of course these verses are meditations on compassion. And they give us information about it. But I mean to meditate on compassion like the three kinds of compassion we're talking about. The first one we all do somewhat naturally. But like the other two are, you know, we might move in and out of them in a day. But in how would we meditate that would like an actual

[70:53]

sitting practice meditation. How how would that look to try to develop our our experience of the second and third flavors of compassion? Does that make sense? So the basic definition of meditation is a topic of contemplation. Yeah. A secondary meditation is the contemplation of the meditation. So each of these verses is a meditation and we can meditate on them by contemplating them. So, okay, like at the beginning at the beginning of our class we sit for a little while. You could choose one of these meditations and

[71:55]

contemplate it while we're sitting. Or if you're sitting some other time quietly you could turn your attention or bring up for consideration one of these verses and just sit there and look at it. You know, literally look at the page or memorize it and look at it in your mind. Or you can look at you could or you can consider have I today practice sentimental compassion? You can you can look at that question in silence and stillness. You can look at for example, you can you can say did I today or yesterday, but maybe today did I look at people and remember that they aren't what I think they are? Or did I actually fall for what I think they are as them a few times? And most of us could probably find sometime during the day when we thought somebody was such and such and we actually acted like we believed it.

[72:57]

So if you look at studying the first type of compassion and part of it might be at the end of the day actually is a good time to see have I been have I practiced sentimentally today? Did I sort of believe that what I thought of people you know, like I thought somebody was not smart or I thought somebody was wrong. Did I actually believe that that's who they were? And if so, wow, I did. And then you can also say I'm sorry. You can say I confess I did practice sentimental compassion and I'm sorry. That's a contemplation of your day in light of one of these types. You could also say did I today practice the second type of compassion? And you might say actually I did. I actually remember the second type and I practiced it and I'm glad I did. So you can both

[74:02]

contemplate the teachings of them and you can also contemplate your daily life to see how they're functioning in your life. And you can do that when you're walking around and you can also do it sitting still and quiet. Okay. Very nice. Thank you for the teaching. Thank you for the question. By the way, John, John had his hand up and disappeared. Did you change your mind, John? Yes, my question was answered by Jean. No, no, not Warren, John. John, John Sheehy. This is John speaking. Oh, it's John speaking. Yes. Sorry. Okay. So your answer, your question got answered by what? In your exchange with Jean.

[75:03]

Oh, great. Okay, good. Jiayin. Hi, Brad. I'd like to, I'd like to share my practice that just happened in this, in the beginning of the class today. And I'd like to share what I noticed. And I would also like to hear your comments on, help me to see what is the, I have more clear seeing of what is the first type and the second type of compassion, but I'm not quite getting whether there was any third type of compassion there. Or if not, how do I access that or how, how that can come to my practice. So in the beginning of the class today,

[76:04]

I thought someone was, someone's name was not called during the greeting. And I was, I was toward the end when you, when you say, okay, I think that's everybody. And then I felt like I had to, I feel cold to, to say something about it. And so I, I sent a group, send in a message saying, well, I think somebody was not cold. And I was able to see that, like I was feeling suffering, like as if it was me not getting cold. And then I was also realizing my projection, that person may have felt this way or that way. And it's my projection. It's not that person's actual feeling. And, but at the same time, I'm still noticing all my body is feeling the feelings, even though I have this awareness that it's not real, quote, unquote.

[77:05]

And so I, I said, I said, well, and I also hear another voice in me. Well, my rep already start talking. I want to focus on what he has to say. And then I noticed another being there that wants to, to focus, not be worried about this other thing. And then, so I said, okay, let me just put a chat out there. And then I then also texted private chat because I thought, I thought that was you. And, and turned out that's, that says rep Anderson admin. So that's, and then, then I texted her and then, and I was noticing these things going on and I was trying to, to, to be compassionate to myself. And, and I also noticed some things going on there, which was like that act of, of speaking up for me. It feels like I am really trusting this group. And I, I almost feels like everybody wants to know this person is not being cold and

[78:08]

she is part of us and she's part of me and I'm part of her and we are all part of each other. And, and then I feel like, oh, well, I have to do this. and then, so then, then after all that, I tried to settle to, I thought I did what I can do. And then now, now I should just, just let whatever can happen, happen. Everybody is there to help all this process. And then I started to listen. And then later on, this person private messaged me and said, said, oh, rep actually already addressed me by my Dharma name. And that was such a teaching. That's like, like, oh, who is this person? I read like, is this name representing her or the Dharma name representing her? And just similar to why I thought I was texting you rep. And then, oh, this is another person. And that we are not really like talking or we're not really seeing each

[79:08]

other, but we are also really seeing each other. Like I, I, I would love to hear your comments about this, especially how to recognize if there was any third type of compassion. If not, how, where, where can it come to my practice? How can it come to my practice? Well, in what you said, I think you gave some examples of the first type. And there were some examples of the second type. And the first type and the second type kind of like came and came up and went away, came up and went away, came up. So those, those two types, one was happening. Then the other was happening and so on. Okay. The third type was doesn't, doesn't come or go. Does the first two types come and go?

[80:10]

The third type doesn't come and go. The third type is here at the beginning of the class, all the way through the class and before the class and after the class. The third type is the way we are all together. And we're not separate. And how, and the way we are together in a compassionate way where we're not even objects of each other. Like you said, she's part of me and she's part of us. that is. And not, not even thinking that, but just being that that's the third type of compassion. And practice in the first two. Lead us to realize the third, which is there before the first two even started to practice all the way through. We're always together with all beings. That's our, that's Buddha. And that way of being together is what liberates us.

[81:14]

But we have to work with these other forms of compassion to let the third type kind of flesh us out completely become our body. That's what we're doing. So hearing what you just said makes me thought when I was asked, asking you, how do I bring this to my practice? But now I want to say, well, it's not my practice. It's like the Buddha meeting with another Buddha. That's where that is happening. Yeah. And there's no real bringing. There's more like allowing it. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, it's 845. Thank you again. And I also wanted to suggest to you that next time I would like to start with 34 and 35.

[82:15]

And then I would like to skip over the section on comparing compassion to a tree. It's a lovely section, but I would, I would like to do it later, not in order. So what I'd like to do next week is to 34 and 35, and then go to 41, 42, and so on. So if you're, if you're studying the text, please look at 34 and 35 and then maybe skip over the, the four, the five verses on the tree to go to 41 and 42 for next time. And we get into the, yeah, another, another dimension of this study. Thank you very much, everybody. I hope you're doing well in the continuing to be very dangerous times.

[83:17]

Buddha bless us all and let us all bless Buddha with the true merit of our way so that all beings together may attain the Buddha way. Beings are numberless. We vowed to save them. Afflictions are inexhaustible. We vowed to liberate them. Dharma gates are boundless. We vowed to open them and enter them. Buddha way is unsurpassable. We vowed to become it. Thank you very much. Good night. Thank you. Good night, Rob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Rob. Thank you everyone.

[84:07]

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