You've got the farm and the tractors. Yes. Yes, all drive some people, you know, very well. But you know, I recommend that you try as hard as you can to practice within the situation that you're in, and with whatever that dictates. And don't be bothered by whatever else is going on. in terms of doing what it is they want to do themselves, by having a place which has a certain kind of order and a certain kind of calmness and some form of quiet, that's something that they're looking for.

[01:36]

Without there necessarily having to be participating in the detail of it. I'm thinking particularly in terms of people I feel that way. I feel really clear that we are doing our practice here and we're inviting guests to come because we're doing what we're doing and we want people to come who support what we're doing and want to join it in whatever way that is, whether it's just by staying in the room or whether it's by coming to Zazen or working with us. And so that we're offering a different kind of that. This is not like a bed and breakfast place or something like that. We're offering a different kind of experience. And we only have a few rooms here. And I know that there are many people who would like to share this with us.

[02:37]

So we don't need to worry about People who want another kind of experience, we'll find it somewhere else. So that's why I'm not worried about it. No, but what I meant was that, just what you said, that when we are working these things out for the person, they might feel a little bit more peaceful. I guess, I mean, frequently people come here and ask, where are the monks? And it's, well, they're all in their work clothes, you know, and they expect, and they I came here first, you mentioned it, and when I came here I started

[03:43]

And I came into a situation that was all older students. I'm no longer an older student. I was being a new student. And that experience of being a new student in a group of older students, I will never, ever forget. And I often have a near deep nostalgia for what And tonight, when I came into the room, Gilbert was walking down the path toward me. And I knew from how he was walking, he was going back to me. And there was this little peep of happiness that went through my body, that was in my body still, that I would be able to bow back to him and pass him, and how people almost never do that anymore.

[04:55]

And how there was a time when I really thought of passing something without really coming to a complete stop. And how that's gone, or almost gone. And the kind of silence that, I mean, I remember being here for three or four months, and there were people who were here who'd never yet spoken to me. They're big. So I'm very happy to hear this talk about this, to bring this up, because I've lamented many times in the past two or three years the kind of spirit.

[05:58]

For me, it was an incredible experience to be able to be here and be with older students, even though I wasn't. Because I just soaked it up. I mean, it was a really wonderful experience. That, when you bring up, I said earlier that maybe some of these points of our culture and way will come out. This is one that you bring up, is the one point about bowing. And I want to just suggest the possibility of doing that. It would be good to try to do that. Or how people enter into conversations. Yeah. See, that became part of my body only because it was thoroughly practiced by older students. And I also remember at a time at which real erosion began to happen in practices, that there was comment that older students were simply tired of doing these things.

[07:01]

And I appreciate, I could understand that. It wasn't such terrible criticism, and there's a tiredness and that kind of maintenance from years on end. Of course, as you're talking, I must say that everything has two sides. So, I also could share what you're saying, but I also know that for some people the experience was opposite, for instance, the experience of people keeping their space Some people saw that as unfriendliness. You know, there was that aspect of it too. So, you win some, you lose some, right? Some people found the bowing stuff wonderful and other people found it a little too zenny, you know? A little zen, a little too zen. When you couldn't, you know, you couldn't understand how to be social or relate to somebody without those things.

[08:04]

So I think, you know, Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. I mean, whether or not now, whether or not, you know, in 1986, here... 1987, yeah. Here or anywhere else, the year of the rabbit, incidentally. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I found that out. Whether or not 1987, here or anywhere else, is better or worse than 1981 is debatable. So your karma in your life gives you a clear answer and someone else's karma in someone else's life gives them another answer. And what is the true nature of 1987 and 1981? I don't know. I don't know anyone else. So I just wanted to say that because I don't want everybody sitting here to think I'm here now. If I only had been here with Cheryl, I would have never seen this. The real thing, you know?

[09:06]

Maybe so, maybe not. I don't know. But I don't want anybody crushing me. It's really wonderful. You know, it takes a while for these practices to come to the brain. That's right. And by the way, I would like to suggest that we can try this one. We pass people. Don't bow to someone who's holding a giant garbage can full of compost. But anyway, it's practical. I try to walk slowly and bow to people. We can do that. I think we can begin trying to do that. Yeah, I think one thing, I think from being here both those periods, then and now, that I think we have much more sense now including newer students and giving some attention, having programs that seemed to help the newer students. Whether or not we're succeeding, I don't know. But people, newer students often sort of get lost in the shuffle.

[10:09]

But the other side of that is that they, many times, they found it to be, that shuffle to be quite wonderful. But they were lost in, you know, in front of it to be pretty wonderful. So, I don't know. Who knows? Here we are, and we're doing our best. That's all I know. That's all I know. Thank you. I'm just saying there is the opportunity to practice that way at Tassajar still this morning. What has changed about Tassajar is that you can go for four periods of time. You can go for three months now, you can go for a month. But you find the very purest of practices, they came there and over the years all have changed. And I think it's so important that we don't lose it. I feel that too. I feel a lot of confidence in Tassajara because they don't have all the contradictions and multiple agendas that we have here.

[11:17]

I feel that their main agenda really is preserving for us, for American Buddhists all throughout the country, this kind of really meticulous tradition. For instance, I've been in a lot of Zen places. in America anyway, not abroad, but in America. And there's no place that I've seen, and I'm very objective, you know, there's no place that I've seen that has the kind of meticulous eating practice, orioke practice that we have. There's things that are done in other places that, I mean, you know, I'm really broad-minded, but I say, oh, yeah, it's cool, cool. It's really terrible. How could they do that? Look at how we do it here. And it's true, I really think that Our tradition is very meticulous about this, and I think that in some oddball kind of way, in my opinion, preserving the tradition of Oriyoki practice, a living, unbroken tradition of Oriyoki practice, in the most pure way, to me is like, it's kind of like preserving, you know, the original of the Guernica or something, or some great, you know,

[12:25]

picture or statue or work of art that speaks to people generation after generation. And you might as well, you know, throw away the Mona Lisa or something and say, well, this is an old picture anyway. Let's get rid of it. It's irrelevant today. To me, that orioke is like, these kind of traditions are like that, and it's absolutely essential that they be preserved. But not everywhere. We don't have to have them everywhere. I feel that way. As long as it's preserved there, We don't have to pin up a copy of the Mona Lisa in every place, but we have to know that it's preserved somewhere. So I feel this way. Not everyone agrees with this, but I feel like in our place, since we have Tassajara there, preserving that, we can afford to consider different approaches elsewhere. This is my assumption. But see, It's important that there are those of us who've been there and have that to refer to and bring some spirit of that here.

[13:30]

And one of the things is this, and certainly when you were here there was a lot more sense of Tassajara kind of practices being the same, done the same way here. Very much more sense of that. So, and it's not quite the same now. So I think that people who develop a taste for this kind of Zen culture and practice could know This is another option, another possibility is to go there and practice for a while. It has been also written over, it also has been said that if you cause Tathagatagarbha there, you don't have to go to India. Yeah. That's the... That's right. Yeah. Bessie's a very senior person. He told me tonight he's been here longer than his mother.

[14:31]

Oh, really? How could that be? Because he's been here his entire life. Yeah, they're kids. It's great. Sometimes they're kids, like I was saying somewhere the other day. If you go up to the kids, you know, and say, well, you know, you shouldn't do that, then they'd say, I mean, they don't say this, but they might think, well, you know, I'm senior to you. I've been practicing here for much longer than you. And why are you saying that to me? You know, I think they sometimes feel that way. There's a certain point to it. Yeah, right. It goes strictly by seniority. Strictly by seniority. I just noticed there was a lot of appreciation for this talk, and how difficult it is to talk about this without judging, without thinking, oh, our practice now is good, our practice now is bad, our practice is not so hard, it's really where it's at.

[15:49]

I would really like to say all of these things. Well, this is the problem. This is THE problem. This is it. The true way is without difficulty. Just avoid picking and choosing. As soon as there is a single word, there is picking and choosing. That's the only issue of practice. And when you live in a place like this, with 90 million possibilities, You're looking at the other guy who's doing something different from what you're doing and saying, this isn't the real Buddha Dharma, what are you doing over there? And he looks at you and says, what the hell are you doing? Stuck on that old Zen, what does that mean? This is then it comes up very strongly. Yeah, how do we say this in difference? All practices are the same. Tassajara, mingulch, so on.

[16:51]

Bank robbery. You know? All practices are the same. But yet, you know, each one has its place and it's different. And we have to figure out, you know, what are we doing? How do we practice now? So how do you negotiate your way through this minefield in which whatever you choose, every time you make a kind of judgment like that, you're going to find yourself off. How do you do that? That's the issue. How do you do whatever you do, wash the dishes or do gardening in the right way? Because there is a right way to do it. How do you do it in the right way? In a distinctive and particular way in which it must be done? And not lose sight of the fact that it's the same as anything else in this universe. Right? It's the same. So that, oh yes, I must do it this way. This is the way you double-dig a bet.

[17:53]

It has to be done this way. But it's the same as anything else. And so I'm unattached. I'm not attached to it. I'm not hung up on it. And when someone comes up to me and says, you don't do it that way, I say, oh, really? No. So this is called, Dogen Zenji calls this flexible mind, soften up mind. Through many years of zazen and putting up with your dharma brothers and sisters, and finding out how to do that. You know, we have a flexible mind and then we learn how to walk that edge. And there's no edge there anyway. The same as indifference. Yeah, this is a big issue. This is the source of all our trouble. This is why we suffer, right? This is why human beings suffer. Yeah. The world is very wide.

[18:54]

I've heard the world is very wise, why don't the world have a patchwork America? And then, we've rejoined in America, the world is very wise. My problems come up around being used to being around them. I know when I'm attending someone who's been practicing longer, they know a little bit differently, a better way. And so by being inquisitive, I get a lot of things, a lot of questions answered. And also by being inquisitive, I feel like I'm really bothering people. And so one thing that happens a lot is

[19:56]

for me, is trying to not do too much about some of the questions I have. One example I can think of that really made me feel bad was sitting in the dining room on Tuesday morning at the first meal during the Tongariro. And being a friendly person, looking across the table and making eye contact with the person sitting across from me. And the person obviously having more experience in that practice than I. finally just closed her eyes and just closed her eyes. She was sitting in her garden or was being silent? Was that it? Being silent. I was being silent. I wasn't about to say a word. But there was... Oh, I see. I see. I see. And shortly after that, we all mentioned that a downward gaze is appropriate in this situation. And so then I felt really not too good about that. And later on, the same person was walking along I mean, I so much wanted to acknowledge.

[21:04]

You know, this person, by bowing, as we passed, the guy said, Rod, now that you've found your eye contact, maybe you just better not bow at all. And so, walking, getting closer and closer and closer, and finally, she just bowed as I was about to go by, and she said, what was... So, I felt, I think, really foolish. But you know, those are the situations in which we can help each other. Because among this group of us, there's something each of us knows that we can help each other. There isn't anybody here that knows how to do everything exactly right. So if we're willing to take that kind of

[22:09]

I really appreciate what you're saying, but being in a position right now where I'm long covered with all the time that I'm supposed to be grateful to guilt, in particular, because it keeps pulling me to study afterwards. And the next time you do service, you get to do section, section, section, section. But I really appreciate that there's a chance for me to find what it is that I'm looking for. And so my experience from that, feedback from the people, is something helpful. It does mean that you want to be able to take advantage of this. Maybe that's what I'm looking for. And somehow I feel as if that's part of the practice.

[23:13]

One of the things that... That's an interesting kind of situation because one of the things you feel when that happens is you feel, boy, am I stupid. I'm really a cutsy guy. You feel that. So that's interesting. And then also, in order to get a look at what is this self that is stupid or you think is stupid, it's very interesting to have all these different details and forms as a mirror to look at that. And then what you can learn, I think in the end, is you can learn finally a feel for all these little Zen details. Once you know all those little Zen details, you're kind of a different person. You have a whole other perspective, a whole other way of looking at yourself. And then, with any luck at all, if you learn that, you will learn that the next time you're in some other kind of unfamiliar situation where you don't know about it all, and you do the wrong thing, you'll be able to say, huh, that was a wrong thing.

[24:32]

And that's it. And what a jerk I am. That's the great thing. That's the great thing that you can learn. And so, all the time when you're doing everything wrong around here, you can be constantly working on, who is this jerk who I think I am? Why do I think that? Just because they have this completely arbitrary, nutty idea that you're not supposed to have eye contact that they made up for you? Does that make me a jerk? Isn't that interesting that I think that? Why are these guys even smarter than I am? So it is like all these little customs. That's why I was lamenting the fact, and Cheryl was too, that we're not as developed as we were in the past in these little things. Because there are many more opportunities to screw up and be foolish, and find out what it means to be the person who's foolish, and who that person is exactly, and so on and so forth. But I think anything worth doing is worth failing at. I'd just like to add that the person, a couple of days later, the next time we had contact on a completely different matter, and didn't discuss these two incidents at all, gently wiped the egg on my face in an entirely unrelated way.

[25:54]

That's the wonderful part about it. Well, there's one person here at Green Gulch who's not blessed. I'm not going to say who it is.

[26:18]

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