1990.07.01-serial.00076

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EB-00076

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i get mine
when in doubt straighten your roads

ah

i guess i'm going to start am i talked by giving him some
ah little kind of a recap of some of the media events to i've seen lately nothing you know no big deal like mr mandela or anything
but i was watching a telephone interview the bill moyers did few days ago with the jacob needleman
i said isn't it interesting that it's the last hundred years we've had so many labour saving devices
and nobody has any time
i were also busy even though there's all this labour saving devices we've saved so much labor
and now we barely sometimes have time to say hello how are you
our time to have a cup of tea
as some of this barely have time to take a breath
because you know you have to get something done and you have lots of things to do
so you should just take short breaths
get them out of the way
and not roof integrate for
you might actually if you took a fall relax with you know you might fall asleep but
and then what would you get done
yesterday i was getting ready for a am i cooked dinner last night so yesterday i was getting ready to i spent the whole day getting ready for this dinner
and at some point during the day my daughter said to me why you could smile
it takes a lot of time doesn't it
to smile
but i felt like i didn't have time to smile and i've felt like
i should just i needed to keep working and then if i smiled even to smile felt like taking too much time
that would slow me down in some way
to this is kind of habit that we've developed it seems in the modern era the late twentieth century
a time of progress and civilization

we seem to have lost to know in the process something like what the greeks and romans called leisure
but you know leisure way kind of don't give it the kind of credit or dignity that it deserves
now if you practice meditation that's to give that gives these your grating and he doesn't it to sit like this business very dignified way have been at leisure don't you think so
but most of us when we get into meditation we become very busy
and we want to get something out of it to make it worthwhile
and rewarding
so consequently we don't have any time really to meditate because
be too busy
wondering about you know is my meditation good enough or not good enough how come on nothing's happening
why don't i have any of those miraculous effects
ah are those wonderful benefits i've heard so much fun
this can fill up a lot of time
and plus you can think about
how come everybody else and sit in so still and i have to move all the time or
boy am i sitting still everybody else's wiggling
so this passes a lot of time
and avoids having to
actually it's you know be at leisure and experience anything
it's very interesting but then i know then i was i saw this article in the chronicle i brought it for him
ah that a buddhist sutra for the day
i am
jim the people section
this was a really wonderful article it's called rewards hamper creativity if you see this last weeks and on and it says that this person you know it's taken all these years now for americans to figure out this sort of thing that you know as i'm going to explain to you know the buddhist couldn't told you a long time ago right
but now it's scientific
studies have shown
so psychologist james garbarino garbarino james garbarino he thought sixth grade girls they love to go to the movies or give them some movie tickets as a reward so he said please teach these younger kids this game
and i'll give you some movie tickets if you do then he asked another group of girls would you teach these kids his game
the ones who had no reward for doing it did much better
the ones who who were gonna get the reward took longer the kids didn't learn the game as well
where's the big mess
okay so he found that the ones who did it just because they agreed to do it they did much better at it the ones who were had were thinking about the movie ticket they they couldn't do it as well because they were thinking they were preoccupied so then the the article goes on to say
before you dismiss these results as a fluke consider the following studies that back up this study

children who expected to receive a prize for making collages are telling stories proved to be no less imaginative at both tasks than those who weren't promised anything i admitted i read that right they proved to be less imaginative not no less image said they proved to be less imaginative than
those who weren't promised anything for making up stories are doing collages
and not going to get anything from this just make a collage just make up a story
you know you don't get anything for doing this those people do better
okay
two or three weeks after being told they would get an award for drawing with felt tip markers
this is preschoolers now
preschoolers were less interested in using the markers than their parents who didn't expect to be rewarded
teenagers who were offered a reward for remembering details of a newspaper story they had recently read had poor recall than the kids who weren't offered a reward for remembering the story they'd read
what's going on says well to rewards motivate people this is what we've heard all her life rewards are motivating right well they found out that actually it's not true
rewards actually hamper creativity
rewards hamper people's capacity to remember things to teach things to do anything
because these people start we start thinking about the reward we're going to get for doing it
so it's true whether it's in a meditation or your job or relationship for you know just sitting here get anything out of been alive if you have to worry about that than you know it's going to have a terrible time say

well there's a whole second page this and i thought there was the second the second com the interesting thing i thought is one professor of education made a distinction between task involvement in ego involvement i think that's kind of use for it's one thing to be involved in the task of telling the story making the collage teaching the guy
game it's another thing to be ego involved which is what am i going to get for doing this what am i can't get out of it
you know what how do i get mine say
so
i that that was interesting
so anyway the conclusion is that the children who have the reward they they think about the goody and not about the challenge you know not about the activity
so this is the way i make up my talks right as my daughter was saying oh you think of the examples first and then you get the idea rather than she's been taking the english are you know essay writing right and you're supposed to have the idea of first and then make up the examples by start with the exam
once and then go back to the idea
it seems to me know like when i cook i do the same thing because how are you going to figure out what to make for dinner right well you have to go to the yeah you gotta know you don't start with the idea is there with the things
you start with the the produce or the vegetables are the ingredients then with with that you can come to some idea about what to do it doesn't make sense otherwise you have to kind of where do you get these ideas i don't know where people get these ideas
know kind of out of nowhere
i think some people must be get there but i don't seem to his ideas are you know like what would i like for dinner tonight
and then it's first to in a pop up they never pops up for me
you know i can have to look at what i have to eat there and then i can figure out something to make with what i've got
that works pretty well
anyway
so let's get to the buddhist park road
hi

well

happy
we have a new speaker
the

a
so zen teacher so in shaku
who is one of the teachers in new first came to america
he said the world is
of the world is full of mutability and impermanence you all knew that those he said those who don't rise above worldliness are are always tossed up and down in the world full of passion
up and down in the world full of passion
those you know that can the constitution of things the nature of things
can see the infinite in the fifth and the infinite and finite the serpent phenomenal and phenomena and they are blessed even in the midst of suffering and tribulation
he didn't say they've got rid of separate in the tribulation he said they're blessed with separate and that in their blessed in separate and tribulation in the midst of it
so that that's pretty much like this newspaper article don't you think
but i wanted to come come in and a couple of things about this
in a wire people just up and down where we just up and down this world full of passion
because he says when we don't rise above worldliness what is worldliness worldliness is wanting something back one and something in return wanting a reward
wanting to get something out of it
just like those kids then we're not doing what we're what we're not actually involved in the moment with our own being with the person in front of us
we don't have time to smile
this is worldliness to to look for some game to look for some benefit to have it reflect well on me
so when were involved in that kind of worldliness this is tossed up and down in world full of passion
to see in the just say the constitution of things
then we see and we have some leisure and we find out that things are not just things
and phenomena is not just phenomena
you know it's it's our love and compassion
worms generosity there are many things that are already there
in any moment
and this way even when they're suffering and tribulation we have some blessedness
are some com r eve
he understand

a monk one time as the zen teacher jojo
ah hurt his buddhism buddhist to whom does berdych give passion
and jojo who is a great chinese and master said
a boutique gives passion to everyone
ah the monk asked
ah how do we get rid of it
a judges said why would you want to get rid of it
okay
ah to this the monk at the time anyway didn't have an answer or
now this quieted the monk
at this happened to me to know that one of the first times i talked to suzuki roshi i didn't know what to say so i just sat there and after bind
and after well he said how's your meditation
and i said well it's it's not so good
he said what you may not so good i said well i've got lots of i ever i have trouble with thoughts i have lots of thoughts
he said is there some problem about having thoughts
said well yeah there's know you're not supposed to think in meditation
he said i think it's pretty natural to thing
don't you
but

as so i bring this up only to say that this kind of when you know and so in shock over someone says
a rising someone who does not rise above worthiness is tossed up and down in world full of passion
i want to bring this up to see to say you know that there's some switch here in a possible that actually we can be passionately involved in what we're doing rather than having the passion directed towards the reward
you know or the benefit that we can get
we can just have the passion involved in the activity
this is a kind of the liberation right
it's not getting rid of passion
but it means that we actually bring a great deal of passion to something very simple like drinking a cup of tea
are smiling or sweeping the floor
the little events of our life
because if you wait for a big event to come along
right you're going away for the big event to come along way you can finally be passionate it be so out of practice
you know it's real hard
so somehow in a buddhism encourages us to
practice each moment
it doesn't look when we said it doesn't look like you know much in the way of passion
it doesn't look go and
and when one isn't a looking for some benefit or reward you know that's the kind of passionate that we you know we see on t v all the time he always get to see people on tv been passionate
you know they like to have big fits you know somebody's has a big angry fit you know and that's acting
and passion and know and then there's the love passion so on and then there's a passionate embrace and that so that's our idea of passion
you know and then we forget that passion can be you know and just having this kind of big awareness
i've been really intimate and involved with our breath sensation
the taste and know of food in our mouth sensation of the textures
and this is a this is how we have some common her life
the dog zingy says don't practice buddhism to obtain something
dogan is the course the founders of our zen zen in japan

as though he says the practice of
the practice of buddha's teaching is a is done by receiving the essential teaching of a master and not by following your own ideas
in fact
the practice of buddhist teaching cannot be attained by having ideas are not having ideas
by having thoughts not having thoughts

only when the mind of practice and the way coincide where body and mind the com
when the mind of pure practice and the way coincide
so this pure practice is just been intimately involved with the moment of experience
without any idea of reward gains how it reflects on me am i doing well not so well
then bought in line or become
if the body and mind are not yet com
they will not be it is when body and mind or not it is they'll be lots of thorns growing on the path of realization
ten thing right is so in shock he said whirlpool the passions up and down thorns growing in the way why
because we're not in a very simple direct immediate were involved in the moment of experience in we're thinking about something better in the future
what kind of you know what what can be better than this well it's tomorrow it's next week kids it seen this person or that person or you know getting a good to you know where import good trade
teacher says congratulations
this is how we get distracted
we want somebody to compliment as somebody to thinkers
and then we get off from what we're doing
sir dogan as if you want so for the mind of practice for this pure practice and the way to coincide how should we proceed he says there's simply proceed with the mind the doesn't grasp doesn't region
checked with the mind that's unconcerned about fame or gain
what sort of reward will you get and he says something very interesting then he says
don't practice the buddha dharma with the thought that it's gonna be a benefit to others
not even that that's still going to be in the side of it going to be a benefit to others is still going to distract you
i've noticed that sometimes because if you wanna do you know good for other people you can never do good and upright
and then you can never do it for enough people and then pretty soon you wondering like what's wrong with me i can't seem to help enough people i can't do not benefit to these people they don't appreciate me and then present i'm not doing anything for them them are just obsessing about in a foot
scale and how well i'm doing to benefit others
yeah it's bad

so he says just practice the buddha dharma to practice the buddha dharma and i don't want you to think that the buddha dharma is some big mysterious thing right
how about drinking a cup of tea when you drink a cup of tea
hearing the sound when you hear a sound
taste in your food when it's in your mouth
say hello and asking someone how are you
having no smiling
when you're busy
taking the time even to smile them
this is buddha dharma it's not some in a magical thing said some big mysterious things somewhere else
so you know one of the or for instance in a one of the ah a premier in sumerian china came to see the locals and teacher and he says what is buddha
and this introduces your excellency and premier says yes
and the teacher is what else were you looking for
pretty nice her
i mean where did we think it was didn't know the treasure or the sacred
we each have it it's in our own heart already we hint there's nothing to do to get it
and there's no there's not something like that there's not some attainments something to be attained
just being just experiencing each moment
and not thinking so much not been distracted
and all tied up in some idea of what am i gonna get out of it
what's is good for
how's this gonna help people how's this gonna help me
what's in it for me
boy i sure can sit still better than as other people
it's also distract in isn't it
you know the when i dunno if it's still the same but when i worked for the u s postal service
years ago right it's probably still the same because things like this tend to come recreate themselves right is little lineage of how it is to be the u s postal service
and i'm tucked a few posts of people lately and you know you know that kind of get their kind of you know know what i'm talking about but when i worked at the u s postal service the whole idea was to see how little can you do and still be rewarded
and then you know during the coffee breaks and things people would brag to each other and their dhabi earliest stories you know i took the whole afternoon off yesterday and i went down you know i took a ferry boat ride and you know baba baba and i came back and punched out he knows there has been here the whole time it wasn't that great
and then somebody else would have their story you know about how they got rewarded for not working
you know if we're not doing anything say but that's perfect example again right of what sort of thing happens you know and they serve x more extreme have that mentality
how little can i do and still be rewarded it's to be all involved in the reward and never involved in the activity
and then the other side of it is to be so involved in the particulars of the activity that again we don't have any leisure
i socked with a friend of mine recently who teaches at kiddo and he's one of the few a keto teachers who teaches freeform
geo was a kid so what does he do just come in and let's do a kiddo now
we have groups you know we have partners so you practice a you attacked me and then i attack you see what happens
but all in a most i kinda students want to have one learn the forms right and master the forms and then he said know they had this about national convention center fell last week
when he said in his classes he he taught some of the classes at this convention he could just say this black belt in aikido trying to figure out how they get to use the forms that they know
in such as been in a situation and just responding to things and actually experienced what's going on and they're just manipulated until they can apply one of their control techniques you know this flip ah
god's here now so that's real different than just you know it's a so we we're we're talk thinking like well as it used for to learn forms or not it isn't it's both works both ways
sometimes if you don't have any form you don't learn anything you just go in and you you just it just goofing around what are you learning and yet the other side is if you get the forms when you forget to stop being involved in the form
are you always keep looking for the form that you know that you can repeat that you can apply in the situation that you already know how to do and it works pretty good and gets you buy
or can you be in the dark some time
and at the mercy of things
and not know what to do and sort of feel your way along and stumble about how would that be
and it's the same in cooking right i mean i think well it's useful to have people learn recipes and it's nice to have a kind of repertoire but you think cooking is just following a recipe
it's just it's think you can experience things and then come up with something to do
when we can be a loss for a while and see what is this what's actually going on here
we can find out about the constitution of things about the way things are and then respond to that with some fullness of our bane
which is different than applying the technique that we know
this kind of thing comes up when you know from what i've heard i haven't spent that much time with people who are dying but what do you do
would you do in your dime no one i'm dying what do i do
is there some technique you know some word i should tell myself her
so it's nice because it's beyond technique there's nothing that's gonna work
there's finally just being with somebody
pretty nice
and not worrying too much about know not worrying about whether you're making a good impression are doing a good job just being with something as simple kind of direct way
there was a story in and around us is both sort of life is there was apparently a patient of that book how can i help it's a great little book as sister reminded of this story recently
then there was a patient in this hospital or he'd been in our hospitals a lot and he'd had one thing after another news one of these case histories where they bring other doctors around because it's so fascinating that he could have had all these things and still be alive he was like this medical marvel and this one of the doctors was writing about this
he said that
when he'd come into the room based on what kind of look at him and say hi and was kind of like when are you doing here are you still alive
instead of the other way around now
like what are you doing here
so when they the doctor said the patient says to him
kind of they said hello and then it said the patient system who you
and for once pasted to the doctor said well you know i started a gentleman doctor zone zone then i realized that didn't really get it
and i'm a i'm a father
i have a couple kids well i went to and he realized there was nothing he could say
they would really say who he who you
and just then the patient said pleased to meet you
isn't that nice
so he knew that era somebody who knew you know just in a very simple direct way and he can say that person getting read to that point
where i could just be there pleased to meet you
somebody who's finally at a loss
doesn't know what to say that will make a good impression
or please the other person
bunches and loss
two people at loss pleased to meet you

i've been a loss for so long you know it's sort of
finally getting used to it
now almost can talk about it as though it's a virtue

ah
well you another story one day a as swipe on
the cell phone
when the old creek of zen dries up
and there's not a drop of water left
what do you stay then
what about this time when there's no drops of water when there's nothing to get out of something
what do you see then
and how swept bangs said
the bottomless water which you cannot see
wow that's kind of her
the bottomless water which you cannot say
the monk said
how can i drink it
what's he getting the ideas some reward or what

so zen teachers wave put him off a bit he said
i wouldn't try to drink it with your mouth
there is a monk winters and teacher georgia
the way he said why would you wanna get rid of cash from home
and the monk
i told him about the conversation
and judges said well
if you can't drink it with your mouth i don't think he could do with your nostrils either
kiss that passes present him or her
then the monk repeated his first question
when the water when the well as then dries up and there's not a drop of water
and what do you see then
when what at what about then there's no drop of water there's nothing to be had to satisfy your thirst

on zen teacher judges said the water will taste as bitter as quinine
among said what about those who drink it and jojo said he will lose his life
this is a kind of losing your life it's so wonderful isn't it
we lose ourselves we were involved in activities without wondering why we're doing it or what we're gonna get out of it and when just in a very simple and direct way can taste our food and smile at somebody and talk and not think about kind of impression we're making whether i'm doing well not so well
well better worse than other people
ah you know being a good person not been a good person been a good send person not a good enough sun person has my practice while it's really terrific today while yesterday wasn't so good no tomorrow it's going to be better well i still have this problem that you know it's also in a leg to practice buddha dharma
it doesn't have to do with having ideas are not have any ideas
how about how we're doing
so this is the kind of losing in your life
very refreshing and yet there's something bitter about it her
even in the midst of suffering and tribulation they'll be some with
it's not as though though the you know it's not as though that this being with thinks is without you know bitterness
does the with things is also to be with saffron basic kind of you know where live and it's fragile and impermanent immutable
and things can change so quickly or life can change so radically
people do get hurt
people we get cancer and diseases and
and so many things are happening in the world
but it's important to take the time to touch it
to be with a very simple direct way
and this way you taste the bitterness and you also lose your life and as they say in some schools i think you gain that when you're right isn't there isn't there some school religion or something that says you know if you lose your life for my sake you know then you gain it
so anyway thank you very much for
i'm being so much at your leisure this morning
that you could have the time to sit and listen to me and
here this sounds
her experience you're being your breath
and settled into your life
and not be so tossed around
hi andreas gaining ideas that come along
i tell you though so the conclusion of the duggan's of a passage about non-practicing for getting ideas who says so dumb practice the buddha dharma for your own sake
i'm dumb practice for the sake of others
don't practice for name or game don't practice the buddha dharma for miraculous effects
or don't practice buddha dharma for any special benefits
just practise the buddha dharma for the sake of the buddha dharma
this is the way
please enjoy your t k
when the time comes thank you